water lines or drain pipes ok above service panel ?

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charlie b said:
That is compliant with the code. If you can stand in the working space and have 6.5 feet of headroom, then it is acceptable for a pipe or duct to be over your head. However, if the pipe or duct is directly above the panel, then (1) it has to be at least 6 feet higher than the top of the panel (not likely in a room with a 9 foot ceiling) and (2) there has to be a drip shield between the pipe/duct and the top of the panel.
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OK, here is a twist. The plumber said yesterday that the 3 inch pvc pipe directly above my panel is a radon pipe. (or a vent pipe, he mentioned both) Only air will be going through it. I jumped to conclusions. I suppose this pipe is ok and will not have to be moved ? Sorry for my misinformation.
 
Stevenfyeager said:
OK, here is a twist. The plumber said yesterday that the 3 inch pvc pipe directly above my panel is a radon pipe. (or a vent pipe, he mentioned both) Only air will be going through it. I jumped to conclusions. I suppose this pipe is ok and will not have to be moved ? Sorry for my misinformation.
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I do not know, but my first assumption is that it doesn't make a difference. I'm assuming the reason for the rule is so things are not in the way of things needing to go to the panel, not from caring about what's in the pipe.
 
There is no exception for a vent pipe.
Air in pipe is the same as air in ductwork, not allowed.
 
If it is a vent pipe then you can move it away from the work area easier than other pipes... but still has potential for water and debris in it so you still should use 45's instead of 90's to allow the air the best effectiveness...
 
LarryFine said:
I would offer to do it, too, unless a plumbing or mechanical license is required, but not for $40; more like $100 + parts.
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Well, I am expecting the parts to be four 45 degree fittings... and a few cuts from the original pipe... if the pipe is through the joists then that could be a problem and another one or two straight couplings... but... all the pipe is already there probably... yet I prefer your price... especially given what a plumber callout would charge them...

Figure my pipe cutters work for plumbing as well as electrical pipe... and my glue is the same... my hole saws are the same...lol.. even the deburrer is the same for electrical and plumbing...
 
LarryFine said:
I would offer to do it, too, unless a plumbing or mechanical license is required, but not for $40; more like $100 + parts.
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He wasn't doing it for $40, he was doing it for 40 mucks - big difference?:)

Stevenfyeager said:
I thought it would not be allowed because water in a pipe could possibly leak and allow water into the panel....
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It can't be in the dedicated space or in the work space regardless of what the pipe has inside it. The fact it is only moving air, might relieve one from needing a drip pan if it were located above panel but also above dedicated work space.
 
kwired said:
He wasn't doing it for $40, he was doing it for 40 mucks - big difference?:)

It can't be in the dedicated space or in the work space regardless of what the pipe has inside it. The fact it is only moving air, might relieve one from needing a drip pan if it were located above panel but also above dedicated work space.
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Thank you. I'm still wondering if it's ok. I'll try and call the inspector today. The pipe is in a 20 " tall floor truss area and is about 9 and half feet off the floor so it's not close to the dedicated work space but is directly over one of my three panels.
 
Stevenfyeager said:
Thank you. I'm still wondering if it's ok. I'll try and call the inspector today. The pipe is in a 20 " tall floor truss area and is about 9 and half feet off the floor so it's not close to the dedicated work space but is directly over one of my three panels.
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In that case you may have to build a drip pan with drain to protect the top of the panel.
 
Stevenfyeager said:
I thought it would not be allowed because water in a pipe could possibly leak and allow water into the panel....
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That might be a good reason for requiring a drip pan between the pipe and the top of the panel. But that is not the only reason that "dedicated equipment space" must be maintained. It's not just about protecting the panel from drips.

The pipe still has to be 6 feet higher than the top of the panel. I believe (but have no code reference to offer as proof) that the reason for this requirement is to ensure there is room to install additional conduits out the top of the panel for connection to future loads. They don't want the pipe in the way of future conduits, and is does not matter that it is a vent pipe. The best evidence I can give to back up my belief is that the only four items that require dedicated equipment space (i.e., switchboards, switchgear, panelboards, and MCCs) are also the only four likely to have additional conduits installed for future loads. You don't need this space reserved for transformers, disconnect switches, VFDs, or anything else but the four listed above. That would be because once these items are installed, there will be no need to add conduits in the future.

 
charlie b said:
That might be a good reason for requiring a drip pan between the pipe and the top of the panel. But that is not the only reason that "dedicated equipment space" must be maintained. It's not just about protecting the panel from drips.

The pipe still has to be 6 feet higher than the top of the panel. I believe (but have no code reference to offer as proof) that the reason for this requirement is to ensure there is room to install additional conduits out the top of the panel for connection to future loads. They don't want the pipe in the way of future conduits, and is does not matter that it is a vent pipe. The best evidence I can give to back up my belief is that the only four items that require dedicated equipment space (i.e., switchboards, switchgear, panelboards, and MCCs) are also the only four likely to have additional conduits installed for future loads. You don't need this space reserved for transformers, disconnect switches, VFDs, or anything else but the four listed above. That would be because once these items are installed, there will be no need to add conduits in the future.
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If the pipe in question is within a structural ceiling, it is outside the defined dedicated space/zone. It can still need drip protection if leaking or exterior condensation is likely and is located over the electrical equipment.
 
kwired said:
If the pipe in question is within a structural ceiling, it is outside the defined dedicated space/zone.
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You have me confused. How can a pipe be "within" a structural ceiling? If I look up and see the concrete that comprises both my ceiling and the floor of the level above me, and if that concrete is less than 6 feet above the top of the panel, then the pipe may not be directly above the panel. But it sounds like you are suggesting that it is possible to both see the pipe and see that it is above the structural ceiling. That I do not understand. Can you clarify?

Let me take a stab at it. In my "TV room," there is a suspended ceiling. If it were to be removed, we would see a vaulted ceiling made of wood planks, and also see a number of cross-beams that help carry the load of the ceiling (i.e., the weight of the roof above). Those cross-beams are structural supports. But they do not comprise a "structural ceiling." So if there were a pipe that runs above the cross-beams and below the vaulted ceiling, this would not allow the pipe to be less than 6 feet directly above a panel.

 
charlie b said:
You have me confused. How can a pipe be "within" a structural ceiling? If I look up and see the concrete that comprises both my ceiling and the floor of the level above me, and if that concrete is less than 6 feet above the top of the panel, then the pipe may not be directly above the panel. But it sounds like you are suggesting that it is possible to both see the pipe and see that it is above the structural ceiling. That I do not understand. Can you clarify?

Let me take a stab at it. In my "TV room," there is a suspended ceiling. If it were to be removed, we would see a vaulted ceiling made of wood planks, and also see a number of cross-beams that help carry the load of the ceiling (i.e., the weight of the roof above). Those cross-beams are structural supports. But they do not comprise a "structural ceiling." So if there were a pipe that runs above the cross-beams and below the vaulted ceiling, this would not allow the pipe to be less than 6 feet directly above a panel.
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[FONT=&quot]Most will agree that what you described is a structural ceiling. If the roof or the floor above would collapse or at least be seriously cocmpromised if you removed it it is structural. Anything above the bottom plane of that is outside the dedicated space even if less than 6 feet above the electrical equipment.

[/FONT]Typical dwelling - panel on a wall and drain pipe running directly over panel but above bottom plane of floor joists - might be a PITA for the electrician, but is not in violation of NEC - might need a drip pan though, kind of depends on how likely one determines it is to leak or sweat and drip onto panel.
 
charlie b said:
... In my "TV room," there is a suspended ceiling. If it were to be removed, we would see a vaulted ceiling made of wood planks, and also see a number of cross-beams that help carry the load of the ceiling (i.e., the weight of the roof above). Those cross-beams are structural supports. But they do not comprise a "structural ceiling." So if there were a pipe that runs above the cross-beams and below the vaulted ceiling, this would not allow the pipe to be less than 6 feet directly above a panel.
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I think the cross beams ARE part of the structural ceiling. Pipes running through those cross-beams would be permitted, in my opinion.
 
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