Wearing 2 hats

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mpd said:
find out in your area who is responsible for existing problems found during an inspection, you will probably find it is the owner, if thats the case make the inspector do his or her job and cite the owner
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Of course it's the owner, who else could it possibly be. :-? :rolleyes:

How about the inspector just does his job and I dont have to "make" him do anything. :rolleyes:
 
There is a clear difference between wanting to "save the world" as someone put it and acting responsibly by performing the duties you were hired to do.

Fortunately, this type of situation does not happen very often and since it is a rare occasion it is always easily handled and the professional electrician who knows how to handle this situation with the homeowner and inspector.

I think this is the natural tendency of some who resist authority due to their own control issues.
 
ivsenroute said:
There is a clear difference between wanting to "save the world" as someone put it and acting responsibly by performing the duties you were hired to do.
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Maybe you do get it after all.
 
See you guys in the real world obviously don't understand the legal ramifications of being an inspector. If we see a code violation and don't write it up, we can be held responsible for it. If we see a code violation and do write it up and it doesn't get fixed, we can be held responsible.

Yes the job I was hired to do, is electrical inspections. If you call for a service change, personaly I try to put on my blinders, walk straight to the panel look and your work and walk straight back to my truck.

If, eluding to Bob, you ran a circuit in a mall space and I came over and open up the ceiling to check on his strapping, and I see KO's missing and covers missing and who knows what, someones getting a correction notice. I'm pretty sure that the 18 year old manager isn't going to have a clue what needs to be done with it, but you as a professional electrician that obviously has contact with who ever is paying the bills should be able to get it to the right person for me.

If I say "hey Bob, do you think you could see what you can do about getting this cleaned up?", maybe we could work together, I get a cleaned up electrical job and Bob gets some more work.

All of us acting as professionals and working together can usually get a lot more done than standing around figuring out why it's not our problem.

P.S. And maybe Bob wouldn't have to remove our comments and lock our threads.
 
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C3PO said:
Maybe I am crazy, but it seems to me like most members of this site really dislike electrical inspectors.
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Just as much as they dislike Electrical Engineers, Electricians, Home Owners...:grin:

Actually, quite a few people on here are inspectors. The good kind. And not the "drive by" good kind.

electricmanscott said:
How about the inspector just does his job and I dont have to "make" him do anything. :rolleyes:
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The biggest problem I see with that is, most places don't have well defined rules and regulations as to what is covered and who is to blame.
 
I would not have a problem being asked by an inspector to 'clean something up'. But what that 'something' is makes a huge difference. If it's just putting in a couple staples for some loose NM, or a box/device cover or two, that's no budget-buster.

But to claim the "legal ability" to require me (the EC, not the HO) to update all the wiring in a 60-year old house just because I'm replacing one broken switch, then you need to have some sort of procedure in place to make the person who is responsible for the property (read: the owner) to make sure it's done.

Yea, I'll be happy to put in a bid for the work. That's what I'm in business for. And I'll be more than willing to speak with the responsible party about the dangers of their problem. But don't make me legally responsible for someone else's problem.

Just to stir the pot a little, suppose an inspector was asked to someone's home, and the HO wants to inquire about his/her options about what they need to do for a particular installation project they are contemplating. If the inspector notices some serious Code violation that needs to be addressed, who is going to be required to fix it? There's no EC on the job 'there doing the work"......
 
cowboyjwc said:
See you guys in the real world obviously don't understand the legal ramifications of being an inspector. If we see a code violation and don't write it up, we can be held responsible for it. If we see a code violation and do write it up and it doesn't get fixed, we can be held responsible.
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I have no doubt that is true, but it is not my problem.

I'm pretty sure that the 18 year old manager isn't going to have a clue what needs to be done with it, but you as a professional electrician that obviously has contact with who ever is paying the bills should be able to get it to the right person for me.
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The 18 year old is not the property owner. Are you telling me that the electrical permit that you have in your possession does not include the contact info. for the property owner?

I don't mean this in a mean or angry way at all, I just really don't understand why it would even remotely be my problem. :-?

If I say "hey Bob, do you think you could see what you can do about getting this cleaned up?", maybe we could work together, I get a cleaned up electrical job and Bob gets some more work.
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A couple of blanks and some KO seals I would have taken care of before you even got there and if you got there and spotted some more I would take care of it. However if you tell me I have to tell the owner they have to spend a few $1000 beyond the contract work and I will say no, you tell the owner.

All of us acting as professionals and working together can usually get a lot more done than standing around figuring out why it's not our problem.
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I don't have to figure out why it is not my problem, the state has spelled it out. :cool:

527 CMR 12:00 Massachusetts Electrical Code

Amendments.​

Insert the following provisions ahead of the body of the code:

Rule 4. Where and actual hazard exists, the owner of the property shall be notified in writing by the authority enforcing this Code. (See M.G.L. c. 1666 ss 32 and 33, for enforcement authority.)
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To me that makes the most sense, the person actually responsible for the property has been notified in writing so the inspector has done their job. :)
 
When an inspector is requested to make an electrical inspection he is invited into someones home or place of business. When or if pre- exisiting violations are noticed I will give the owner in writing the violations cited and recommend they hire an electrical contractor to pull a permit and make repairs. These violations are exisiting whether I am invited in and witness them or not. If a contractor installs electrical wiring per applicable codes I will inspect and approve his job. He is not responsible for pre-existing violations. However a contractor can not extend wiring from a pre-existing violation. Unless you have some type of property maintaince code it's almost impossible to make sure the owner will correct violations. You try to express that they may have some safety issues and hope they will repair. Usually they are concened about their family or property and make said repairs. This problem has been an issue for many years and it's going to be a problem for many more. Safety is paramount and we have to use good judgement and work with people that in some cases have little or no money to fix violations. It's just as bad for the electrical inspector to find these problems. We have to make the call either way. I'm only speaking for myself not for any other inspector.
 
iwire said:
I don't have to figure out why it is not my problem, the state has spelled it out. :cool:



To me that makes the most sense, the person actually responsible for the property has been notified in writing so the inspector has done their job. :)
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IMO that is the bottom line of this argument. Until other states follow suit like Massachusetts, the burden of correcting code violations not related to the job at hand will continue to be placed unnecessarily in the electrician's hands.
 
I don't take it wrong Bob. Read how I asked it "Bob can you help me out here?" Sure I have the contact info, "Macy's corp LLC". Yep, I'm pretty sure that I won't have any trouble getting that to the person responsible.

We're having this discussion and funny that I just come off of a job where the guy says to me "What do you want me to do open up the whole ceiling so you can look around?". I told him no. Like, I believe it was SEO said, He can't hook up his work to bad work. This guy hooked up new lights off of J boxes that were missing KO seals and had broken flexes attached to it. There were two whips that came off of two of the boxes that had wire hanging out of them with out even any wire nuts much less terminated in a box. Now I'm 99% sure that he did all the work in there since it's a new ceiling, but he played the "it's existing" card.

I've never said that I would ask the contractor to repair $1000 worth of code violations. In that case I could probably figure that it's a bunch of non permited work and I have other avenues I can take then.
 
Pic from one of my stops today. Went in and wired a cable line and replaced a pull chain fixture in the basement. Saw this and numerous other code issue. I told the lady that there were a few things that she might want to have addressed and went on my way.

Next stop featured a dead circuit courtesy of a backstabbed receptacle. Loads of code issues there too. Romex spaghetti basement.

Final stop was for replacing bath fan, switches and gfi all on existing circuit. Mucho violationos there too. Again mentioned issues and that they should be addressed. Did not do a full scale system inspection and present a full quote for the intial work with all the repairs included in the price at which time I would have been laughed out the door. Did what I was there for, noted isuues, collected my check, moved on. THAT is how things work in "the real world".......:grin:



nogfi.jpg
 
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