Weird GC Inclusion

[Alwayslearningelec]

I'm reading an exhibit that I must agree to. I've never seen this before in any documents I've had to agree. Should we(the electrical sub) even have to verify the accuracy of axis lines, benchmarls etc.? What does that entail? Sounds like a big liability.

"This Subcontractor shall verify the accuracy of the axis lines, benchmarks etc. and
immediately notify GC of any discrepancies. If the subcontractor starts work
without verification of the provided survey, axis lines, benchmarks, etc. the
subcontractor is accepting the conditions and will be responsible to bear any
costs associated with errors arising from incorrect and unverified information
without any impact to GC, the schedule or the client."

 

[charlie b]

I don't even know what axis lines and benchmarks are. They sound like they would come from a civil survey. What is worse is the inclusion of "etcetera." How much does that add to the subcontractor's responsibilities?

Can your company walk away from this job?

 

[infinity]

No contractor would accept that clause. For one when decks are getting layed out there is no time to be checking all of the surveyors marks. If an error is discovered during the electricians layout then the GC can be notified but no EC is going to follow up and check the surveyors lines. You may have 50' axis lines that can easily be checked but column lines can vary checking every one would be costly.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

No contractor would accept that clause. For one when decks are getting layed out there is no time to be checking all of the surveyors marks. If an error is discovered during the electricians layout then the GC can be notified but no EC is going to follow up and check the surveyors lines. You may have 50' axis lines that can easily be checked but column lines can vary checking every one would be costly.

Thanks. Can you explain a little more( so I can understand) how the benchmarks and axis point play into the elctricians layout and what it has to do with decks being poured? THank you

 

[infinity]

As decks are being built and poured the electrician will have sleeves, deck boxes, deck pipes, etc. that have to be installed before the concrete gets poured. The physical location of those items gets layed out based on dimensions taken off of axis lines provided by the surveyor. Depending on what type of building it is there may be very few or very many things to be layed out. For example an apartment building may have feeder conduits for each apartment, deck pipes for tel/data, sleeves for risers, floor boxes for floor to ceiling windows, deck cables for kitchen islands, etc. A commercial building may only have minimal layout for electric closets and possibly deck pipes for mechanical floors.

 

[roger]

I have been on a couple projects where this was in the specs, both were very large contractors that specialized in screwing the subs.

On one project we (along with other subs) asked multiple times for the GC to give us at least one point on each floor to start from and finally the A&E team forced them to do it.

 

[brantmacga]

Contracts are negotiable. If you take issue with a SOW clause, strike it out and send it back to the GC for review. They accept it or they don’t. It’s a boilerplate line they’re putting in every subcontract, but it primarily applies to civil and concrete. If you sign it, you’re on the hook.

I know a couple of large EC’s that have their own surveying crews on staff to verify benchmarks, corner pins, and survey underground routes. But those are on 7 and 8 figure subcontracts.

If the GC won’t remove it, and you’re that worried about it, you can hire your own surveyor. In my area they run $150-$200/hr for a 2-man crew. Of course I’d ask for a contract change to cover the cost.


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[Eddie702]

I agree, strike it out. It's probably boiler plate and they will accept it.

 

[rambojoe]

You could also just use your phone to find the definition yourself.
It really depends on what the job is, but benchmarks are not our concern.
Axis (actually GRID) lines can be.
It seems to be a generic contract clause, just exclude it, or ignore it unless you are trying to hit a grid line and elevation in a open feild...
Search for the fixed benchmarks in your town, they are usually on bridges or other civil structures. Its kinda fun to know.

Perhaps a pump in a storm drain 30' would require surveying to add up material and such..

 

[winnie]

those items gets layed out based on dimensions taken off of axis lines provided by the surveyor. Depending on what type of building it is there may be very few or very many things to be layed out.

The clause being considered seems to say that the EC is responsible for confirming these axis lines are correct. Which IMHO seems pretty silly.

It makes good sense that all of the trades have to work from the same dimensional references. It doesn't make sense to require the trades to separately verify that the references are correct.

Imagine that the reference is the corner of the building. If the original survey is wrong, then perhaps the entire building gets put in the wrong location, which could be very costly. But that shouldn't be the EC's responsibility.

Is there some other reference line error which the EC should be able to notice? Ieg improperly spaced redundant lined?

Is this just a scam (sorry, the building is 6" off from where it should be, so we can't pay you)?

Are there tolerance values for the allowed error in reference lines? Do the plans the EC even sees define the coordinate system and epoch of the references? (Continenral drift and all

Jonathan