Well Pump Troubleshooting

Whoever had the idea that high amps would equate to low water needs their head examined.....so there is that.
Yeah, load should be highest at whatever point of the Pressure-Volume curve where it's doing the most work (pumping the most water). Even cavitation lowers the load on the motor
 
It appears I was mistaken due a severe case of rectal cranial inversion.

The “load” light on the PumpTec controller is flashing, which indicates an overload situation. Steady on indicates an underload, or low water condition. I took 5 seconds to read the manual and undeceive myself about what is going on. So much for relying on my memory. 🙄

At this point with all the troubleshooting I’ve done, it’s looking very likely that the actual pump is damaged.
 
OK. That was something I was wondering about. I know the low water shutoff activates based on increased amp draw, I just don’t know how much
You have the right idea just need to think about it a little different. The pump minder will shut off power to the pump on low water and therefore low amps because less water is being moved and the motor is doing less work.
 
There is a third that will cause high amps.
Plugged discharge.
Plugged discharge on a centrifugal pump brings the load down. It's like hearing your vacuum cleaner speed up when you put your hand over the end of the hose.. No work is being done because there is no volume of flow
 
It appears I was mistaken due a severe case of rectal cranial inversion.

The “load” light on the PumpTec controller is flashing, which indicates an overload situation. Steady on indicates an underload, or low water condition. I took 5 seconds to read the manual and undeceive myself about what is going on. So much for relying on my memory. 🙄

At this point with all the troubleshooting I’ve done, it’s looking very likely that the actual pump is damaged.
How do you get to that conclusion? This is literally a classic case that gets me onsite. Make the decision if a pump comes out. You are making the wrong call if you don't properly vet the start circuit. If you don't want to test the relay, just replace it and start there. There have been several cases where the start wire is damaged, not allowing proper amperage, thus the pump can't start, yet meter checks show otherwise.
 
How do you get to that conclusion? This is literally a classic case that gets me onsite. Make the decision if a pump comes out. You are making the wrong call if you don't properly vet the start circuit. If you don't want to test the relay, just replace it and start there. There have been several cases where the start wire is damaged, not allowing proper amperage, thus the pump can't start, yet meter checks show otherwise.

I have load side current on the start cap circuit when it tries to start.

If I have current on the start winding circuit load side of the relay, then it stands to reason the relay is functioning.
 
If I have current on the start winding circuit load side of the relay, then it stands to reason the relay is functioning.
Again, if the relay is failing to open after the start, you will see high amps. If you want another test, insert your Vmeter on the red and yellow leads right on the well head and light it briefly. If the volts approach 300, the motor is turning. That is your back EMF talking to you. Do not run this test more than 2-3sec. If it' staying engaged, you risk exploding the capacitor.
 
Again, if the relay is failing to open after the start, you will see high amps. If you want another test, insert your Vmeter on the red and yellow leads right on the well head and light it briefly. If the volts approach 300, the motor is turning. That is your back EMF talking to you. Do not run this test more than 2-3sec. If it' staying engaged, you risk exploding the capacitor.

Not possible on the Pentair controllers. Taking off the cover opens all the circuits.

I tested it with a known functioning controller (start cap and relay) and it’s unchanged.
 
Not possible on the Pentair controllers. Taking off the cover opens all the circuits.

I tested it with a known functioning controller (start cap and relay) and it’s unchanged.
Most starters are built mostly the same thus why I indicated the test at the well head where there is usually a pigtail. But, if you have condemned the pump, is what it is. Hopefully you find the culprit. Report back. Pretty rare that that a pump is stuck unless sand logged.
 
Most starters are built mostly the same thus why I indicated the test at the well head where there is usually a pigtail. But, if you have condemned the pump, is what it is. Hopefully you find the culprit. Report back. Pretty rare that that a pump is stuck unless sand logged.

Yeah, no pigtail on this one.

With a new controller it does the exact same thing, so it can’t be a bad relay.

It’s not common for these pumps to fail, especially after such a short time, but, if you have eliminated all other possibilities, then whatever remains, however extraordinary, must be the truth.

I have bypassed the OL and got LRA on the pump. I have tested and then switched out the start cap and relay. I have bypassed the float switch. I have ohm’d out, and meggered the pump windings, and the readings are perfectly within manufacturer specs.

Whatever the problem is, bad splice, jammed impeller, corroded shaft, whatever, must be at the bottom of the well, because I’ve tested everything (that I can think of) at the top.

I know your specialty is well pumps, so if you have any other advice I would certainly be receptive.
 
Yeah, no pigtail on this one.

With a new controller it does the exact same thing, so it can’t be a bad relay.

It’s not common for these pumps to fail, especially after such a short time, but, if you have eliminated all other possibilities, then whatever remains, however extraordinary, must be the truth.

I have bypassed the OL and got LRA on the pump. I have tested and then switched out the start cap and relay. I have bypassed the float switch. I have ohm’d out, and meggered the pump windings, and the readings are perfectly within manufacturer specs.

Whatever the problem is, bad splice, jammed impeller, corroded shaft, whatever, must be at the bottom of the well, because I’ve tested everything (that I can think of) at the top.

I know your specialty is well pumps, so if you have any other advice I would certainly be receptive.
Nope, seems like you have most covered by now. Personally, I generally find the real culprit just for piece of mind such as removing pump motor when out and running it. A cracked rotor can do this. All winding tests are normal, pump is free, yet pulls high amps and does not turn at the right speed.

Very first thing I do when pulling a pump is pull the intake screen and try to spin the coupler with pliers. That can prove a couple things pretty quick. Basically I do stuff like that for feedback to a customer, and ensuring I only do the job once. It is entirely possible the pump ran dry, the safety didn't work, and the pump section ate itself. That is good info to have when you install another. As you said, they usually have longer life than that so I am always looking for the cause.

I remember pulling one that was sort of moving water but high amps. What was extremely telling was PVC shavings stuck in the screen. Because PVC floats, that proves the water level dropped all the way down there.
 
I stand corrected and I knew that. It is the PSI that can go high.
Even the PSI can roll off from cavitation or impeller stall. They should generally move a little water to test max PSI. We tank test down to like 1GPM and compare to spec as a good measure of impeller health. As they wear out, the impeller stages have a lot of slip and they struggle. A really quick tech note is to observe how fast a pump fills a pressure tank in relation to pressure and volume. I've condemned them before because you can clearly see the struggle.
 
Nope, seems like you have most covered by now. Personally, I generally find the real culprit just for piece of mind such as removing pump motor when out and running it. A cracked rotor can do this. All winding tests are normal, pump is free, yet pulls high amps and does not turn at the right speed.

Very first thing I do when pulling a pump is pull the intake screen and try to spin the coupler with pliers. That can prove a couple things pretty quick. Basically I do stuff like that for feedback to a customer, and ensuring I only do the job once. It is entirely possible the pump ran dry, the safety didn't work, and the pump section ate itself. That is good info to have when you install another. As you said, they usually have longer life than that so I am always looking for the cause.

I remember pulling one that was sort of moving water but high amps. What was extremely telling was PVC shavings stuck in the screen. Because PVC floats, that proves the water level dropped all the way down there.


I certainly appreciate all the help from you and the others here. I’m trying to learn as much as I can about motors. Little weak in that area.

Just for the sake of being thorough, I cut the wires and made a pigtail at the well head. I got 120V between red and yellow for the 1-3 seconds before the OL tripped. So it appears that the pump is definitely not turning.

I will play around with the pump when I pull it and try to find out what happened.
 
I stand corrected and I knew that. It is the PSI that can go high.
There are some centrifugal that have a "Hooked Performance Curve" meaning that maximum PSI occurs at something above zero flow. I am told that when in the right application they can be very efficient. The problem is when there are multiple pumps connected to a common discharge manifold. Being that they start at zero flow, they aren't making enough pressure to overcome the pressure in the manifold.

Keep in mind that this is a pretty rare occurrence at least in my experience. Lots of engineers just stay away from pumps with a "hooked curve" in any kind of parallel operation.

But yeah, for the most part you are right
 
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