Went off on a potential client yesterday

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electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Drove an hour and a half round trip to look at a potential panel swap. Turned out it was fine: a 125 amp QO split bus. I told him it would be a grand to change the panel but that I probably wouldn't bother if it was my house. Then he told me about these three pendents he wanted put up (different house, didn't go there). Kitchen island with one existing light, remove, add two new locations, install 3 pendents. Sounded like it would be long skinny bit roulette to get thru to the other locations. I told him $300. Says he will let me know. Next day I get a text saying "price seems high, can you give me a better deal?" I debated how to reply for a minute. Sometimes just "lol no" is pretty funny. Ended up texting back this:

"How much would you want for 3 hours of driving plus three hours of your time and a bunch of risk drilling holes in someone's ceiling? ? I don't really even want to do it for 300 to be honest."

I'm 38. I'm too young to be getting this grumpy.
 
electrofelon said:
I'm 38. I'm too young to be getting this grumpy.
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It's not so much an age as it is mileage thing electro

One has the public squabbling constantly ,and it's easy to be short with them

To be honest, i haven't seen the trades this rosey in quite a while, and everyone's aiming a tad higher

Myself i purposely lost two jobs last week spittin' zero's

Which i'll do if i sense even a hint of a hard dollar.


That said, i recently walked into a completely ungrounded delta that had existed for decades w/o note. With the help of this forum,as well as a dedicated shnider EE, i was able to create a safer install.

The original spark missed it, the original inspector missed it, the landlord could not be made to understand that he (as well as I) we're liable

I shut him down after he babbled on for 20 minutes with a LOT of expletive deletives and could care less, ignorance should not be rewarded.

~RJ~
 
that's the PC way jer, however it's far more fun to create a tirade at times

i do have a local rep to uphold.....:)

~RJ~
 
"$300? The price seems high, can you give me a better deal?"

"Sure, $350. Is that better?"

I write a lot of emails with a blank address, then save them in the drafts folder; keeps me from sending anything too incendiary but lets me both vent and think about the problem.
 
I don't think the response was out of line. I might have worded it a little more politely.

"That is the absolute lowest price I can offer for 3 hours of driving plus three hours of my time and a bunch of risk drilling holes in someone's ceiling. I don't really even want to do it for 300 to be honest."

We have sometimes said to clients "If you have a better offer, you should take it." Occasionally it's been clear we are calling a bluff.
 
jeremysterling said:
Agreed. Do you know of a response that does?
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it really does not matter if they know they are out of line.
they don't care, and if they can chisel you a smidge, yay!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
i got a call friday.
guy wants a lighting cert.
immediately.

i said if you send me the job particulars, we can do it this afternoon.

great! how much?

$1,350.

...

...

...

can you do better than that? it's a very small store.

no. it's a day of my life, and three years i'm responsible for this,
and subject to audit. that means i get to go back, for free.
and pay for the audit, which is $500. audits are random.

...

...

...

...

i'll talk to my "people", and get back to you.

fine. have a nice day.

click.

^^^^^^^^^
now, this means i have a market survey being done for me, for free.
if he calls back, my pricing is good. if he doesn't, someone else is cheaper.
and he's doing this for free. what a deal.

and, it'll be a check at time service is performed. i'm getting tired of
chasing people who don't pay their bill unless they are badgered.
my regular customers, 30 net. everyone else, COD.
^^^^^^^^^
 
electrofelon said:
Yeah, I'm getting pretty burnt out. Not sure I can stand it much longer. Resi in particular.
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I left resi in early 2014. The only GOOD thing is scoring FPE panel change outs at apartment complexes. The rest wares you down after a while. "While your at it can you fix this?" "I changed my mind/wife actually doesn't want it, can you move those sconces back/over their" "But its been fine since we bought the house" "Well my furnace was working before you came, and now its not. Fix it or I'll sue you back to the stone age" "I have the material, you just run the wire, my uncle will do the rest" "Money is tight. Can I send you check for the material next month, and then maybe pay for labor several times thereafter?" I say yes- then the first check bounces. No reply. Small claims court turns into an uphill battle. My boss liquefies me as to why I agreed to such without his permission. $850,000 home with pool. Some customers were a delight to work with. Others would follow you and yell why you were moving furniture around. I kept everything bottled up and always smiled deescalating what I could to the best of my ability. Most of it I could brush off, but somethings would inadvertently build up. Such as things that I knew were beyond my control. Eventually I started to lash out at unexpected times.

Honestly- its totally normal and I get you electro. Find your passion, because customer service is the hardest job in the world. You don't leave sane :lol::p
 
I sometimes say something similar, but try not to

The price is just the price, I should never try to explain

When I am deciding whether to buy (for example) a cup of coffee, sellers overhead and material costs do not affect my decision

Price is a big factor, and quality another

So I either buy it, or buy it somewhere else, or don't buy it at all

And this kind of attitude helps me cull for better customers
 
Reminds me of this-
Judaism also has ethics placed upon the client. One of these laws is called the ''shopkeeper's law.'' A person cannot go into a camera shop, for example, and spend time with the salesperson, learning about the camera, and pricing it, only to go home and buy it online for 20% less. Not only is the client stealing the salesperson's time, but he can actually cause the shopkeeper to think his fee is too high, (as a sale wasn't made), and lower his fees, which he may not be able to afford. Hence money indirectly is stolen from the shopkeeper. Now if the potential client is honest with the salesperson, and says he is shopping for price, and the salesperson wishes to spend that time, this is allowed behavior.
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(quoted from http://rabbiarthursegal.blogspot.com/2011/01/rabbi-arthur-segalfoster-good-business.html)
 
electrofelon said:
"How much would you want for 3 hours of driving plus three hours of your time and a bunch of risk drilling holes in someone's ceiling? ? I don't really even want to do it for 300 to be honest."
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Happened to me recently AND I LOOKED AT THE JOB. Ceiling rafters were running front to back as seen from the narrow crawl space on one end of the attic. I drilled the first hole only to find out that there was an acoustic ceiling below the original ceiling and I hit one of the ribs. In my case I still made $$ but I bid high.
I'm 38. I'm too young to be getting this grumpy.
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Grumpiness grows with you as the years go on. When you get to my age you just don't want to take any crap from anyone - customer or not !!!

I'm not one to walk away from any job but there are times when you realize that you won't even take the ladder off the truck for the $$ they want to pay.:thumbsup:
 
There's a good article on this subject in the June 2018 issue of Electrical Contractor Magazine. On page 48 the article is "Breaking Up Is easy To Do." It's not available "on-line" yet but should be by the end of the week.
 
It is an open market -customers can try to negotiate price. Even in retail stores the tag on the shelf or item isn't necessarily an absolute price - it is what the majority of customers end up paying though because most just pay it.

Was in dollar store a while back waiting in line and happened to have a couple of those "thrifty shoppers" in front of me. Not having many items in their cart doesn't mean they can't hold a line up haggling prices. I remember one item this lady was complaining it came out of a bin of discounted seasonal type items - it was full of Easter items and we were past Easter, her item wasn't an Easter item and in fact was normal stock item. Wanted to slap her and say it probably was just placed there by some other customer that decided they didn't want it. This was just one of the items she had that she tried to get a "bargain" on.
 
electrofelon said:
Next day I get a text saying "price seems high, can you give me a better deal?"
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Years ago I took a week long class on how to negotiate prices. One of the things I learned was that most cultures negotiate prices on practically everything. Ours does not except for very large purchases like cars and houses. Since we do not negotiate prices generally, it's sometimes surprising or infuriating when a customer tries.

The instructor taught us how to negotiate the price of anything, even a cup of coffee. And if you can get over your fear and awkwardness, you can save lots of money. I have used these techniques successfully many times to buy all sorts of stuff including stuff at the supply house. It's a perfect example of "it doesn't hurt to ask" because many times if you ask for a discount, you will get it.

Perhaps it's because I live in a culturally diverse area that it's not unusual for a customer to ask me for a discount or a better price.
You have to listen to how they ask and read the situation. Sometimes they are just looking to win the negotiation and a tiny discount will seal the deal. Other times, you are way high in their mind and only a substantial discount will do. If you feel like you are already giving away too much, you can explain that as your counteroffer.

If you look at the situation from the customer point of view. He doesn't know how much effort you have expended so far. He doesn't know your costs. He don't know what the general price for electrical work is. He either legitimately feels the price is too high or is just using a negotiating technique to see if he can get a better deal. What he did was exactly what people all over the world do when buying something.

Once he asked "can you give me a better deal", the ball was in your court. You could have responded in a way that keeps the sale alive without conceding any money. Perhaps "Gee, I'd like to give you a better price, but $300 is already a substantially discounted price from what I normally charge. Since I'm already here, I'd like to do your job. I understand if you can't afford it."

That response explains why you "can't" go lower which may satisfy him, and then challenges him to accept your price least he look like a cheapskate who can't afford to get the work done. If that doesn't do it, you can walk away knowing you tried your best to get the job. I would never insult a potential customer because, he may call you later to do the work, or recommend you to someone else. And you certainly don't want him posting a bad review e.g. "Not only was his price way high, he made me feel bad".
 
electrofelon said:
Drove an hour and a half round trip to look at a potential panel swap. Turned out it was fine: a 125 amp QO split bus. I told him it would be a grand to change the panel but that I probably wouldn't bother if it was my house. Then he told me about these three pendents he wanted put up (different house, didn't go there). Kitchen island with one existing light, remove, add two new locations, install 3 pendents. Sounded like it would be long skinny bit roulette to get thru to the other locations. I told him $300. Says he will let me know. Next day I get a text saying "price seems high, can you give me a better deal?" I debated how to reply for a minute. Sometimes just "lol no" is pretty funny. Ended up texting back this:

"How much would you want for 3 hours of driving plus three hours of your time and a bunch of risk drilling holes in someone's ceiling? ? I don't really even want to do it for 300 to be honest."

I'm 38. I'm too young to be getting this grumpy.
Click to expand...


I don't think I would have quoted $300 unless he wanted to get the job done while you were in the area ( as in right now). Let the customer know that is a price for now and an extra trip will cost more (travel charge).

You really should have sold him a panel change instead of telling him there was nothing wrong with the split bus. Sure a split bus is legal but for some reason a lot of people just don't understand how they work. People like having that one main breaker (simple).
 
mbrooke said:
I left resi in early 2014.

"Money is tight. Can I send you check for the material next month, and then maybe pay for labor several times thereafter?" I say yes- then the first check bounces. No reply. Small claims court turns into an uphill battle. My boss liquefies me as to why I agreed to such without his permission. $850,000 home with pool.
Click to expand...


Why on earth would you agree to something like that?
 
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