Wet Location??

Merry Christmas
Status
Not open for further replies.
360Youth

360Youth

Senior Member
Location
Newport, NC
Just curious if you consider this...

IMAGE_112.jpg


...a wet location. I ask because I got eager in pulling my prep work for this change order and left my 14-3 loop to feed through the conduit once it was channeled in . Then it hit me that NM can not generally feed through a conduit. If this is not considered wet location, than I could. I am leaning on the wet location side, but I am curious how it pans out here on the Post-Its.
 
360Youth said:
Just curious if you consider this...

IMAGE_112.jpg


...a wet location. I ask because I got eager in pulling my prep work for this change order and left my 14-3 loop to feed through the conduit once it was channeled in . Then it hit me that NM can not generally feed through a conduit. If this is not considered wet location, than I could. I am leaning on the wet location side, but I am curious how it pans out here on the Post-Its.
Click to expand...

Its 'wet', take a look in Article 100 for "Location, Wet"
 
Just curious, are you on 2005 or 2008 code. Where does either code prohibit pulling NM in conduit? 2005 isn't real clear, just can't be where there is subject to "excessive" moisture. Would conduit in a concrete slab really be subject to "excessive" moisture. Don't mean to sound ignorant, but where does it say that the inside of a conduit that is installed in a wet location is also considered a wet location?
 
wet location

wet location

2002 NEC Handbook commentary - "It is intended that the inside of a raceway in a wet location ...be considered a wet location."

I know...it is not the code...but the commentary is there to help clarify issues such as this.

The AHJ has the say and most of the ones around here accept the commentary in this situation.
 
Jane,
Take a look at 300.5(B) and 300.9 in the 2008 NEC. The conduit in the on grade slab is a wet location per the Article 100 definition of "Location, wet".
That being said there is no general rule that says you can't install NM in a raceway, but you have to watch out for Note 9 to Table 1 in Chapter 9.
 
NM can be installed in conduit except in wet locations or conduit fill restrictions. I don it knowy I forget to check ART 100 sometimes? I was thinking there might be some leway, but 100 is pretty clear.
 
So...if you are still under the 2005 code, which we are in my jurisdiction, it really doesn't prohibit the installation of NM in conduit in a basement slab floor. 2005 code doesn't list the inside of a raceway as being a wet location, nor does it prohibit NM from being installed in a wet location, only a location that is subject to "excessive" moisture.

2008 code is much more specific and would probably make the installation of NM in an under slab raceway a violation.

I was interested in this post because it just so happened that I ran into this type of thing on a residential rough in yesterday. They had installed pvc conduit under the basement floor slab to a wet bar counter locatation and they had pulled NM through the conduit. I did alot of searching in the 2005 code to make sure this wasn't a violation and came to the determination that it was code compliant. Then, after reading this post I started to wonder if I had made the right call. But after this discussion, I'm pretty confident that I made the right call, under the 2005 code.

What do you think?
 
The changes to the 2008 NEC are not new they just clarified the intent of the 2005 code that the interior of conduits underground are a wet location, and also clarified that NM cable can't be installed in a wet location IMHO.

Chris
 
Jane,
300.5(B) was in the 2005 code and requires that cables in a raceway in a on grade or below grade slab be listed for wet locations. 300.9 is new for the 2008 code an clarifies that the interior of any above grade raceway that is installed in a wet location is also a wet location.
 
Yup, I read it again and it does say that. I am glad they clarified it in the 2008 code because 334.12 does not specifically say that NM can't be installed in wet locations, only where it is subjec to excessive moisture or dampness. This definition leaves too much open to interpretation of what "excessive" is and puts the AHJ in the position of making a judgement call of whether the location might receive excessive moisture or dampness.
 
jshaw said:
Yup, I read it again and it does say that. I am glad they clarified it in the 2008 code because 334.12 does not specifically say that NM can't be installed in wet locations, only where it is subjec to excessive moisture or dampness. This definition leaves too much open to interpretation of what "excessive" is and puts the AHJ in the position of making a judgement call of whether the location might receive excessive moisture or dampness.
Click to expand...

I agree that the 2005 verbage "where subject to excessive moisture and dampness" was too vague and unenforceable. I believe that this was the justification for the 2008 change.

Chris
 
jshaw said:
Yup, I read it again and it does say that. I am glad they clarified it in the 2008 code because 334.12 does not specifically say that NM can't be installed in wet locations, only where it is subjec to excessive moisture or dampness. This definition leaves too much open to interpretation of what "excessive" is and puts the AHJ in the position of making a judgement call of whether the location might receive excessive moisture or dampness.
Click to expand...
You don't really need the wording in 334.12. The rule in 300.5(B) requires that any conductor or cable installed in an underground raceway be listed for use in wet locations. NM is not listed for that use.
 
jshaw said:
. . . where does it say that the inside of a conduit that is installed in a wet location is also considered a wet location?

2005 code doesn't list the inside of a raceway as being a wet location, nor does it prohibit NM from being installed in a wet location . . .

What do you think?
Click to expand...
I think that you now get it, but just to say it again: A conduit's interior is not a location.

Any conductor within a raceway in a wet location, no matter how watertight, is in a wet location.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Jane,
Take a look at 300.5(B) and 300.9 in the 2008 NEC. The conduit in the on grade slab is a wet location per the Article 100 definition of "Location, wet".
That being said there is no general rule that says you can't install NM in a raceway, but you have to watch out for Note 9 to Table 1 in Chapter 9.
Click to expand...

don's correct!

There's no getting around this, accept to install it correctly.
 
brantmacga said:
You cut that floor so puuuurdy! :D You don't seem to favor the jackhammer quite as much as I do. ;)
Click to expand...


I did not cut the floor, job foreman did. Although, the next day, my boss showed up with this he got on a trade for some motor work. :grin: :grin:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top