What about garbage disposals and dishwashers?

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bikeindy said:
Hey Jim, if i run the wire in conduit through a wall is that ok? YES! so putting it through a hole in a cabinet that is 1/2" thick with a plastic bushing (conduit) is also. Try as you may to say this practice is somehow wrong or unsafe is starting to annoy me. Find a real problem with how work is being done. by the way the hole is ussually much larger than the cord so that the plug can get through.

If you run romex or thhn yes.Conduit is not for cords.Try as you may it is a wall.Is it a hazard ? Probably not.Is it a nec violation, yes.Is it inforced, probably not.Doing things for 20 years with no problems does not mean its ok.That same cord going thru 2 pices of drywall with metal studs is illegal and no more likely to cause a fire.Thru wood could cause a fire.
 
Jim did you recently have a head injury?

First you state that drywall is a framing member, now you want us to believe a cabinet is a wall.

Both are statements are laughable.
 
iwire said:
Jim did you recently have a head injury?

First you state that drywall is a framing member, now you want us to believe a cabinet is a wall.

Both are statements are laughable.
Next?Back to resultsMain Entry: 1wall
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'wo l
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English weall; akin to Middle High German wall; both from Latin vallum rampart, from vallus stake, palisade; perhaps akin to Old Norse volr staff -- more at WALE
1 a : a high thick masonry structure forming a long rampart or an enclosure chiefly for defense -- often used in plural b : a masonry fence around a garden, park, or estate c : a structure that serves to hold back pressure (as of water or sliding earth)
2 : one of the sides of a room or building connecting floor and ceiling or foundation and roof
3 : the side of a footpath next to buildings
4 : an extreme or desperate position or a state of defeat, failure, or ruin -- usually used in the phrase to the wall
5 : a material layer enclosing space <the wall of a container> <heart walls>
6 : something resembling a wall (as in appearance, function, or effect) ; especially : something that acts as a barrier or defense <a wall of reserve> <tariff wall>
- walled/'wo ld/ adjective
- wall-like/'wo l-"līk/ adjective
- up the wall slang : into a state of intense agitation, annoyance, or frustration <the noise drove me up the wall>

number 5 sounds like a cabinet.
 
iwirehouses said:
I'm not gonna do it, but it'd be perfectly ok to plug the disposal and dishwasher into one duplex receptacle, provided it was split with 2 dedicated 15 amp circuits, right?

Around here it is common to run a 20A diswasher/disposal circuit, run to a duplex under the sink with one side switched for the disposal.
 
iwire said:
OK Jim, your right it's the rest of us that are clueless.:p

We should all use Bob's dictionary.Seems he knows more than anyone else.If he doesnt like what websters says he makes up his own.You are clueless Bob on what words mean.When nec does not define them we should just ask you.I simply stated my opinion based on a dictionary as to what a wall is.But if your wisdom can kindly define just how thin or thick a wall is or what it is made of please do so.Perhaps you just dont want a cabinet to have walls so then it wont.
 
Jim, what is your opinion of a counter top or permanently installed desk top? Are they walls, ceilings, or other?

Roger
 
So why is passing a cord through a counter or desk top any different than passing a cord through a cabinet side?

Roger
 
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roger said:
So why is passing a cord through a counter or desk top any different than passing a cord through a cabinet side?

Roger
In my opinion it isn't different,neither is sending a cord thru a ceiling towel.In my house i have several of these kind of situations.As i stated most of us do this.I am not saying i find it unsafe ,i am saying it is a wall and violates nec.Have never had an inspector even say a thing about it.Would i do it ,YES.All i was doing is bringing up a glitch in the nec.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Have never had an inspector even say a thing about it.
That's because the sides of cabinets, counter tops, desk tops and the like are not walls, infact the items below are used on 95% of all jobs we do.

round_grommet_small.jpg


Plastic desk grommets permit the routing of power, communication and data cables through the work surface. It can be used by itself or with any Retractable Power and Communication Center .

Roger​
 
roger said:
That's because the sides of cabinets, counter tops, desk tops and the like are not walls, infact the items below are used on 95% of all jobs we do.

round_grommet_small.jpg


Plastic desk grommets permit the routing of power, communication and data cables through the work surface. It can be used by itself or with any Retractable Power and Communication Center .

Roger​

Code referance to back them up as ul approved.Do holes without them violate nec ?The idea of a hole is not new.Whats at question is if its permitted.Being on the market does not mean much without a ul stamp
 
Jim, why do you think a listing is necessary? Look in the NEC and you will find very few items overall are specifically required to be listed, as a point of interest look at breakers, only SWD and HID breakers are to be listed per the NEC, no others are.

Do you think ground screws are listed, how about means for strapping MC?

Heck, I don't think most electric motors are listed

BTW, UL doesn't approve, they list, and they are not the only NRTL .


Roger
 
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I can't believe the course this thread is taking. You guys are so too much!

To me, the obvious difference between passing a wire through a wall and a cabinet panel is not the hole itself, but the length of the cord within the wall space. Look at which wiring methods may pass through walls unbroken.

As for the through-suspended-ceiling issue, I'm mixed on it. One can argue that the above-ceiling receptacle and plug is not readily accessible, but what about overhead equipment or stationary plugged-in kitchen appliances?
 
LarryFine said:
I can't believe the course this thread is taking. You guys are so too much!

To me, the obvious difference between passing a wire through a wall and a cabinet panel is not the hole itself, but the length of the cord within the wall space. Look at which wiring methods may pass through walls unbroken.

As for the through-suspended-ceiling issue, I'm mixed on it. One can argue that the above-ceiling receptacle and plug is not readily accessible, but what about overhead equipment or stationary plugged-in kitchen appliances?

Ok now i am confused.How does length change anything?
 
Jim, I'll get on your cart now, I would also like to know how length of cord makes a difference, my cabinet may have a 6" solid spacer between the DW and adjacent area where my receptacle is located and yet my walls may only be 4".

Roger
 
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Yikes ,I did not mean to start a "switch is an outlet" kind of thread . I think the reason the N.E.C. frowns on cords through walls may have more to do with the spread of fire than a concern for the physical protection of the cord. I can almost remember something somewhere about cords having to be visible for their entire length?

I have seen many dishwashers with cords that violate the length requirement and some that are plugged into receptacles in basements. Is there a difference between passing through a floor or the wall of a cabinet , physically I mean ? Not really , many folks say "hey side wall of a cabinet or through the floor no big difference. " "What's the difference between 4ft & 5ft ?,,,12 inches ,,,no big deal.. right?"
 
M. D. said:
Yikes ,I did not mean to start a "switch is an outlet" kind of thread . I think the reason the N.E.C. frowns on cords through walls may have more to do with the spread of fire than a concern for the physical protection of the cord. I can almost remember something somewhere about cords having to be visible for their entire length?

I have seen many dishwashers with cords that violate the length requirement and some that are plugged into receptacles in basements. Is there a difference between passing through a floor or the wall of a cabinet , physically I mean ? Not really , many folks say "hey side wall of a cabinet or through the floor no big difference. " "What's the difference between 4ft & 5ft ?,,,12 inches ,,,no big deal.. right?"

For not wanting you sure opened another can of worms that i never even thought of
 
Not to stir the post any more, but I can sell you a 6' garbage disposal cord listed by the UL... :D

---------------------
George Stolz, Troublemaker at Large
 
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