what am i missing on estimating?

[boboelectric]

$50 an hr, kindalow...

 

[ishium 80439]

Granted, it a bit simplified...over simplified, IMHO....any job of significant duration will incur demob/mob. charges ~ especially when we are talking RMC and heights.

You are absolutely right. I was just trying to show a point about the difference between pricing a construction job versus a service job. Certainly there are adders for high work, confined space etc.

My point was touched on by hardworkingstiff. On a service job you need to look at the job, troubleshoot it, figure out what tools and material you will need, go get them do the work and then break everything down and get it back to the truck. There is a bunch of downtime in there especially if you are working on the 5th floor. If you are running trapezes and running pipe on the 5th floor for a week the job is laid out, you have a system, the tools and material are nearby by etc. Again simplified, but if you don't do this type of work it may not enter your mind that there are significant differences in the way they are each carried out.

 

[bullheimer]

i agree that 3. anything hours for a 10 stick of rigid is too much. maybe not if it was on a trapeze, but certainly on surface run. ten foot ceiling tho definitely adds to it.

basically, i am more AFRAID of going broke, than i feel like i have to have this job. i think realistically, i don't know sheet about estimating. union scale here is about $35/hr. if i bid high enuf to make money, then i can sleep at night. if i put in a bid like i did for doing a kitchen in conduit for $10K, then i have trouble sleeping. (the plan got amended so i get to rebid it). i know of companies around here who went belly up from crappy bids. Mills elec went out to Chapter 11 because the bidder got the scale on the prints wrong.

 

[Loffgren]

re

re

$75.00/hr shop rate?
Our average "shop" rate is $19.50/hr top to bottom. Add 35% for burden and that comes to $26.33/hr raw cost. I bid jobs using this average rate, hopefully we can build the rate cheaper than what we bid. If it's only a 2 man job I will use a higher rate.
So I would bid your job like this (assuming your material has tax and rental equip)

Mat $62,000.00
Lab 644 hrs x 19.50x1.35=$16,954.00

Subtotal cost=$78,953.00
OH&P @ 25%=$19,738.00

Total job = $98,691.00

Your mileage may vary in your area.

Well said and thank you.

 

[macmikeman]

Why is it that 25% is always quoted as some sort of magic number for the combined profit and overhead on project bids? Do any of the people who swag out 25% even ever really calculate true overhead first before coming up with that magic number? My simple minded little bet from lots of past experience is that if you use that number in that manner, your profit will be very little of the 25% total. Using per cent for profit on the other hand is not so bad, as long as the correct overhead is calculated into the mix first.

 

[quogueelectric]

it depends on where you are running it, obviously. ocal in a refinery with no
hot work permitted, meaning you drive a half mile to the conex for each
cut and thread, or a factory where you are in there at night on a lift, that's
something else entirely.

now, i'm famous for saying i can do something in 2/3 the time it really takes,
so i called my friend mark, who does tons of rigid, and asked him how much
footage a day, in 3/4" gal, with backstraps on concrete walls, 4sd j boxes,
cut and threaded, no unions, no threadless, spin it up. red head anchors on
everything.

he says 150' to 200' a day. 8 hour day. i agree. maybe 250' a day if you are
able to smoke along, but to bid it, call it 175' per 8 hours.

then i said what about 10' in 4 hours.... 20' a day.... and we both started
laughing..... honest to god, if anyone showed up to work for me and did
10' in the first four hours, the second 10' would be their last.....


randy

Many horror stories of lack of production are I would say 75% poor foremanship with lack of either layout of material.
Most men come to work with the attitude to get the job done. Many are under the supervision of either incompetent substance abuse or just plain dumb supervision.
Not having the correct tools and hardware on the job will take the wind out of a mechanics sails and he has no recourse at his disposal.
By far the largest waste of time on a job is not having the proper material for your men and this is caused by a lazy or iincompetent foreman who has the trust of the contractor.
One of the last jobs I was on were 4 foreman on a small mall job and the foreman had only 1 scissor lift on a 25 x75' store to install the ceiling show lights in a sheetrock ceiling. Now how many cans got installed that day??.
I have a ladder in my truck but what would happen if I had brought my own ladder in?
Owners need to stay in touch with thier employees and see for themselves in the material bills that the propper hardware was ordered a day before the work to be done not a day after with an excuse of how bad the men were.
It is easy to see if you know what to look for.