What can a 3x2x2 box legally be used for besides the end of a 14-2 outlet circuit or a switch?

[dirtynails]

I was at my local supplier getting an old work box, and the kid behind the counter suggested a 3x2x2 box. He seemed shocked when I told him that my single 12-2 nm and a device goes over it's 10 cu in. Or a single 14-2, device and an internal clamp. He told me has contractors come in and buy hundreds of these. It sounded like they're daisy chaining them! What don't I have right? What about a 3x2x1.5 with 7.5? Surface mount light fixture?

 

[mopowr steve]

Your right, ok to use if your going to put a box extension over it (like a wiremold extension box)
Sometimes tricky situations just don’t lend themselves to ideal NEC fill calculations.

 

[ritelec]

He told me has contractors come in and buy hundreds of these.

the

kid

also

suggested a 3x2x2 box.

 

[dirtynails]

Sometimes tricky situations just don’t lend themselves to ideal NEC fill calculations.

What then, a wink and nod to the inspector? I've gotten stuck doing something like replacing ancient ungrounded AC cable in a 3x2x2.5 outlet box in a shallow wall. 14-2 daisy chained + device is 14 cu in but the box is 12.5. Very few options there when it's plaster and lath that's too thick for a shallow wall plastic box.

 

[LarryFine]

Is this discussion about handy-boxes or shallow old-work boxed?

 

[James L]

Is this discussion about handy-boxes or shallow old-work boxed?

I think it's about super small boxes of any kind

 

[dirtynails]

I think it's about super small boxes of any kind

Yup. I have 100+ year old properties where the interior walls were built with sideways dimensional 2x4s, so there's very little depth. Most of the rooms only have 1 or 2 outlets! A 2.5 deep handybox just fits with no clamp screw out the back if you scrape the keys off the lath inside the opposite wall. So it's always a game to fit outlets into these walls without being able to daisy chain.

We've sometimes double stacked octagonal boxes in the ceiling to get the volume to do 'hub and spoke', but that's kinda half assed. Cutting in 1900 boxes and mud rings for every outlet is also half assed, but that's what we often do where the outlets are on a wall of plaster & lath on 5/4 firring nailed into the bricks. I'm so jealous of guys who get to work with drywall!

 

[James L]

Maybe you cut the plaster out big enough for the ears of a cut-in box to grab just the lath boards? I know it doesn't always work out, but maybe try this 17 cu in version?

Carlon 1-Gang 17 cu. in. PVC Shallow Old Work Electrical Switch and Outlet Box B117RSWR - The Home Depot

The Carlon Zip Box Blue 1-Gang 17 cu. in. Shallow Old Work box is designed to work with non-metallic sheathed cable in accordance with article 314 of the NEC. Great for light commercial and residential

www.homedepot.com

 

[LarryFine]

To answer the OP directly, I have used handy-boxes as J-boxes in commercial-kitchen fire-suppression systems for micro-switch and gas valves, and handy-box extension boxes over exhaust-duct thermostatic switch connections.

I have used the shallow metal old-work boxes, either with MC connectors or built-in cable clamps for kitchen island receptacles, where the drawers limited the installation depth; supplied via a GFCI device elsewhere, of course.

For microwaves, I like the Carlon gray plastic handy-boxes and covers. Whether any of the receptacle boxes actually had the required volume never arose, and I sure wasn't gonna bring it up.

 

[augie47]

Fairly common to find them in use here especially on homeowner work. Also farly high on my list of rejected inspections.

 

[norcal]

My attitude towards "handy boxes" if someone wants to use one, they should spread their fingers on a anvil & have someone smack each finger 10 times, after that if they still think it is still a good idea to use them, go for it. As you can guess I hate them, it's putting 10 pounds of manure in a 5 pound bag, there are a few applications for them but not many.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

My attitude towards "handy boxes" if someone wants to use one, they should spread their fingers on a anvil & have someone smack each finger 10 times, after that if they still think it is still a good idea to use them, go for it. As you can guess I hate them, it's putting 10 pounds of manure in a 5 pound bag, there are a few applications for them but not many.

I guess that's why I have a few HB extensions and no handy boxes in my truck.
They were really common years ago. I don't see used as much, except for DYI. I see the local hardware store sticker on them.

 

[dirtynails]

Maybe you cut the plaster out big enough for the ears of a cut-in box to grab just the lath boards? I know it doesn't always work out, but maybe try this 17 cu in version?

Carlon 1-Gang 17 cu. in. PVC Shallow Old Work Electrical Switch and Outlet Box B117RSWR - The Home Depot

The Carlon Zip Box Blue 1-Gang 17 cu. in. Shallow Old Work box is designed to work with non-metallic sheathed cable in accordance with article 314 of the NEC. Great for light commercial and residential

www.homedepot.com

Yeah, I mentioned those boxes. They're designed for 1/2" drywall and only work if I get lucky and the plaster wall is really thin.

This Steel City is my favorite for the thick old plaster, the clamps work with really thick walls! Much better than the Raco folding tab style or the F tabs.

I have used the shallow metal old-work boxes, either with MC connectors or built-in cable clamps for kitchen island receptacles, where the drawers limited the installation depth; supplied via a GFCI device elsewhere, of course.

For microwaves, I like the Carlon gray plastic handy-boxes and covers. Whether any of the receptacle boxes actually had the required volume never arose, and I sure wasn't gonna bring it up.

Kinda what I was wondering, how much wink and nod went on with this kind of stuff. You do what you gotta, and the inspector trusts you to be safe. I usually use a handybox for the MW, unless the cabs are on brick in which case it gets a surface box.

 

[LarryFine]

I usually use a handybox for the MW, unless the cabs are on brick in which case it gets a surface box.

I meant surface-mounted inside the upper cabinet. Much nicer than metal. Plastic means no grounding required.

 

[dirtynails]

I meant surface-mounted inside the upper cabinet. Much nicer than metal. Plastic means no grounding required.

View attachment 2555585 View attachment 2555586

Doesn't seem nicer than the Wiremold surface box to me, and they come in plastic. Oh well, different strokes! Never understood why vent hoods are direct wired and a MW needs an outlet.

 

[ritelec]

Sorry, this is the box that was in my mind.
3.75 x 2 x 1 = 7.5 (and the one with the clamp is alittle smaller I think)
What to do with these boxes? (I guess unless you count a device as 1 like the dear old days)
and do those clips in the one or clamp in the other add up?

 

[LarryFine]

Ah, those guys. They're about as useful as these:

 

[retirede]

Never understood why vent hoods are direct wired and a MW needs an outlet.

Likely because MWs are more prone to fail than a hood. And they are usually not economical to repair. Makes it easier to swap out. Just my guess?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I meant surface-mounted inside the upper cabinet. Much nicer than metal. Plastic means no grounding required.

View attachment 2555585 View attachment 2555586

To each his own. I typically cut them in old work. it doesn't take me long and works out great on a retro fit.

 

[Eddie702]

My attitude towards "handy boxes" if someone wants to use one, they should spread their fingers on a anvil & have someone smack each finger 10 times, after that if they still think it is still a good idea to use them, go for it. As you can guess I hate them, it's putting 10 pounds of manure in a 5 pound bag, there are a few applications for them but not many.

Agree. Most of the time handy box=homeowner work. Besided I can't get my fat fingers inside one