What does a P.E. do?

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Re: What does a P.E. do?

Originally posted by jschultz:
The morning of the EIT seemed like a breeze to me. The afternoon was more difficult because I had taken an ArchEng degree which covers hvac, plumb, structural, and electrical. So I took the general for the afternoon, which seemed to be one hard question from all of the EIT design specialties. But the PE was almost the exact opposite, the morning was more difficult than the afternoon. The morning is all about general electrical engineering. Whereas the afternoon is more about power design if you take that specialty. In the morning you need to know about radio frequency and stuff you never or seldom deal with if you are designing building power distribution for commercial projects. The afternoon did have quite a bit about utility power distribution, which I have not had to do at any of the places I have worked at. So the degree of difficulty will depend on what type of projects you work on, on a daily basis. If you do power distribution and commercial jobs you will have a breeze in the afternoon.
The way i did it was to go through and only answer the ones i felt comfortable with. Then go back through and do the next most comfortable, then through one last time and make a guestimate. Hopefully the last time through you only have a few questions left. But you can count up how many you get the first round then the second and get a good estimate of how many you will get right. The first round should be over 90%, the second round should be around 50% and the last round is 1 out of 4 or 5. The fact that you have to wait a few months to get the results back for a multiple choice test is kind of annoying. All in all it cost about $500 between test fees, license fees, application fees, and books.
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I have to agree, it was easier in the morning. Heck, I finished early.... :)

As for the afternoon...Lord have mercy, I wanted to cry, but it was enough to pass the exam, though!! :)

PS. Thanks for the advice!!!
 
Re: What does a P.E. do?

I've been running electrical projects
for many years on "every" job I've installed the P.E. makes a mess of things some small thing so very large.
I wish I had a nickle for every P.E. I've been asked to cover for.
 
Re: What does a P.E. do?

some people's ignorance are easily shown in their posts. How about being a little more descriptive. Even though I am a PE I do not claim to know it all and I actually find it helpful to converse with the installing contractors for their assistance in the installation and design since they are more familar with installing equipment than I. Sometime I feel I may "make little things into big things" however that is what I was hired to do,that is to ensure an electrical design is done properly & up to code, if that upsets the contractor..too bad.
 
Re: What does a P.E. do?

Please, I did not mean to offend, In my experience I have covered up for many P.E.'s sometimes its as small as leaving out circuits feeding outlets or lights ,but sometimes it may be trying to feed panel with wire under sized. Honestly, I have even ran a job where the P.E. over looked drawing fixtures in a stairway and never corrected this mistake on any future revisions for that project,this job ran for two years no correction was ever made. It was almost like he didn't care. Of course mistakes are made by everyone ,but when I make a mistake, I fix it I do not try to get someone to cover for me. First and most I pay close attention to detail I believe in giving the costumer what they pay for. It's my job to turn the wrench in the right direction it's your job to draw it correctly what if GM or FORD sold cars have designed or built and sold for full price. Anything less than my best on the job, to me would simply be stealing from the owner.I might as well walk into walmart and put something in my pocket,its the same thing. I notice there is one thing P.E.'s never forgets, it's that clause it the spec book that, in so may words tell the electrical contractor that he is reponsible for any thing missed by the engineer..Hmmmmm You don't have to take my word for it ask any contractor,project manager or foreman of any trade, this is a wide spread problem.
 
Re: What does a P.E. do?

Originally posted by derekvincent:
Please, I did not mean to offend, In my experience I have covered up for many P.E.'s sometimes its as small as leaving out circuits feeding outlets or lights ,but sometimes it may be trying to feed panel with wire under sized. Honestly, I have even ran a job where the P.E. over looked drawing fixtures in a stairway and never corrected this mistake on any future revisions for that project,this job ran for two years no correction was ever made. It was almost like he didn't care. Of course mistakes are made by everyone ,but when I make a mistake, I fix it I do not try to get someone to cover for me. First and most I pay close attention to detail I believe in giving the costumer what they pay for. It's my job to turn the wrench in the right direction it's your job to draw it correctly what if GM or FORD sold cars have designed or built and sold for full price. Anything less than my best on the job, to me would simply be stealing from the owner.I might as well walk into walmart and put something in my pocket,its the same thing. I notice there is one thing P.E.'s never forgets, it's that clause it the spec book that, in so may words tell the electrical contractor that he is reponsible for any thing missed by the engineer..Hmmmmm You don't have to take my word for it ask any contractor,project manager or foreman of any trade, this is a wide spread problem.
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Not to offend you, but I agree with bwyllie. I don't think it is they don't know or aren't familar with the job, because contractors and electrician can really botch a job as well. I should be about working together to give the client what they want. Every job I've done, I've had the installation go wrong because the installer wasn't paying attention to the plans, so that works both ways.

It's not about a PE it's about their personal performance. I find that some contractors to sometimes feel like they know it all, when they haven't looked at the big picture. They call a spade a spade, when sometime it's really a heart, but it just looks like a spade.

Do I think the contractors have no skill, no, but I would not make the same derogatory remarks you have made just because the person doing the job has tainted the appearance of some in that trade. Or just because people you have encounter have made those types of errors.

It's human error, and unless you want to keep painting the pictures that installers always know what they are doing and they don't make mistakes please watch how you state you comments. Try the design end for a change, and you'll see what I'm talking about. You'll see things differently. :)

PS

Not offense to those other skilled electricans and contractors on this site...it does not change my opinion of how valuable you are to the industry. :)

[ April 05, 2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: lady sparks lover ]
 
Re: What does a P.E. do?

Lady:

it's all about working together to give the client what they want. Every job I've done, I've had the installation go wrong because the installer wasn't paying attention to the plans, so that works both ways.
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Well said.

Also, for anyone taking the PE in power engineering, my PE exam had a lot of questions on faults. I knew the basics of fault calculations, but I was supprised at the depth some of the questions went into on this subject. The exam changes all the time, so your test may not have any fault questions, but I would study this subject anyway.

Steve
 
Re: What does a P.E. do?

Originally posted by derekvincent:
Of course mistakes are made by everyone ,but when I make a mistake, I fix it I do not try to get someone to cover for me.
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IMO if you find and fix your own mistakes, it is not a mistake. A mistake is when someone else finds it.
You might have this luxury, but not everyone.

I have designed/built/managed numerous projects. In every one of them I have made mistakes that were discovered in the field. Some big, most small. I have also found mistakes made by the contractors during inspections, commissioning, and acceptance testing. So it works both ways.
 
Re: What does a P.E. do?

If you find a mistake it is your duty to report it to the engineer. If you have not done that, then you are not doing your job.

Just because there is something missing on the drawings does not necessarily mean it was missed as a mistake. Architects do sometimes change things they don't tell you about and you don't find out about it until you get the RFI.

Also, do not get me started about how bad some engineers and some electricians are. We all have our own personal stories about the scary things we have seen done. That does not mean that all electricians or all PEs are in that group.

Shop drawing review time usually is a good indicator of how good of a job you did on the documents and an indicator of the capabilities of the electrical contractor.
 
Re: What does a P.E. do?

Folks it is an interesting topic.By the way I did not study in US but in asia and let me share with you how we become engineer.You willcall my country of origin as a third wolrd and and you are superior to us but never mind just hear me and then judge us...

My country of origin is philippines and i am avid follower/reader of this site.I am engineer as well.I studied BSEE at university for five years, that how are curiculum is.Before becoming an engineer in our country one must finish/graduated the course(bsee) it was when our new EE law was pass on 1994, before that year our law was base on US law which was laid down during American ocupation.Then some genius found it unrealistic to the current trend.so much for the history lets move on new law.

we have three category, PEE (professional Electrical engineer) REE (register electrical engr.) and RME (register master electrician)to become PEE one must be at least 5yrs practitioner of REE.To become REE you must graduate BSEE and then pass the board exam.to becaome RME there are 5 ways at least the highest must be 3 year in BSEE so as with EE theories and 1 year apprenticeship in electrical field.

Now the duties as per law (RA1820) known as electrical engineering law pass on congress and senate house.

PEE the sole responsible for sealing all electrical plan( designed and calculations) no other can seal the project/installation/dessign or can be executed without PEE sealed.All the liabilities will fall under PEE who sealed it if there is some proven anomally in the designed or whatsoever.He can installed/comision etc regarding all electrical fields.His field is limitless when it comes to electrical fields.

REE-can designed but can't seal any plan,he can execute installation,maintenance,comisioning etc but with limitation, one is that he can supervised electrical intallation/power plan up to 27KV if i'm not mistaken and other limitation which is not of your interest.The two difference between PEE and REE is that PEE has no limitaion but REE has voltage limitation to supervise and can't seal.

RME can supervise installation/comisioning/maintenance of up to max of 600V and up to 1.2MW load if iam not mistaken(w/load).

Quite interesting knowing that rules are not parts of your degree(bsee), in us it is part and a must to pass the board exams,no one can design w/o knowing our code Known as PEC philippine electrical code.before 1994 most of our code is base on NEC (almost 80% of it), now is almost diferent (perhaps 30% only ) due to some aspects,we only use 115V, 220V ,440V nominal without neutral for 1 phase except for 3phase which mostly WYE w/ neutral.

folks just for insight and nothing else.just for the sake of the forum only and nothing else.

any comment will be highly appreciated with gratitude.
 
Re: What does a P.E. do?

You willcall my country of origin as a third wolrd and and you are superior
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I would not assume we are superior or that our schools are superior to the one you attended just because your school was located in a third world country. :)

Steve
 
Re: What does a P.E. do?

It sounds very similar to our system except you change the letters. EIT/FE has to have engineering degree and pass exam. PE has to be EIT/FE, have 4 years experience before you can apply, and must pass exam. PE is sole responsible for stamping drawings. All work must be done under supervision of PE. So really we would say the design is done by the PE even tho some people under his supervision are doing some or most of the work.
 
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