What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

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tonype

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I just an engineer/home inspector trying to get an education in stuff that is unusual -

Saw something new today - a 30-amp, 2-pole breaker (this is not the new item). However, when looking more closely, one pole was connected to a circuit wire, but was also connected to the 2nd pole with a jumper-like wire. The 2nd pole was not connected to anything else.

What does this mean and/or what was the person trying to accomplish? Are there code/safety issues?

Thanks in advance for any insights!

Tony S.
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

Think about it. If that was actually a 2 pole 30 with a jumper from one side to the other it would create a dead 220 volt short.

Had to be something else, no?

-Hal
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

It sounds like this was a split bus panel where both of the poles of the 2 pole 30 CB were fed from the same phase. By installing a jumper on the load side of the CB from one pole to the other you have in effect created a 60 amp, single phase, 120 volt breaker. If the 2 pole breaker were on opposite phases it would trip as soon as you tried to turn it on.
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

It is amazing how fast questions get responses.

It wasn't a GFC breaker. I think Infinity is onto something, since both poles were connected to the same phase. There was no breaker labeling to even tell me what the blasted breaker was supposed to service.

I guess everyone would agree(?) that the best advice would be to tell the client to have the condition looked at by a licensed electrical contractor (there were a bunch of other problems with the systems anyway).

Thanks for the help!

Tony S
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

Yes, I would agree that it should be looked at by a licensed electrician. If the panel contained this type of work there may be other hazardous things that need to be looked at.


Trevor
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

I just worked on a panel were all the left side breakers were A phase and the right side breakers were B phase. No way to get 240 out of any standard type breaker.
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

Just finished a repair. Panel SqD Qo was mounted on side with top (main breaker side)on left. All the breaker spaces on the "bottom" were used. The breakers, in the on position, had the handles going up. The rest of the panel was "free" floating. The service entrance conduit was the only thing holding it in place along with the branch circuit wires coming out of the open knockouts. :D
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

I do not know if I am doing this correctly, but I hope the photo is included. The subject breaker is the 3rd from the bottom in the left column of the left panel.

Photobucket
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

That's not a white conductor being used as an ungrounded conductor without being reidentified is it? ;)
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

Originally posted by bphgravity:
That's not a white conductor being used as an ungrounded conductor without being reidentified is it? :D

1. The neutrals and grounds are combined on both panels, with no sign of a GEC anywhere, so it's presumable neither of these panels are the first means of disconnect for the service.
2. One of these panels is not the first means of disconnect in any event, so the neutrals and grounds should be divided on at least one of them.
3. Pick a brand, any brand: I see Siemens, GE, and what are the mystery all-black breakers? I think I spot a homeline on the panel to the right, but it's a bit too blurry to be sure.

I'm sure if the picture were zoomed out, we'd probably have more to say. :D

Advise to call an electrician. ;)
Click to expand...
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

I agree george it would be alot easier to determine what the violations might be if it was zoomed out.The jumpered 2 pole is on 2 different phases :eek: The connector on the bottom left appears to have 1 red 1 black 1 reidentified wire 2 white wires and it looks like only 1 bare cu.Right hand panel has a double tapped breaker (kind of looks like a sq d homeline ) and the 2 pole on the top has serious bending radius issues.
Looks like H.O.T.J.electric did this !!!!!!

hack on the job electric
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

My guess without seeing the top of the panel is that this a 3 phase panel wired single phase by jumpering three of the phase busses at the top to each line. With the two panel sections this would give you three busses for each phase If these are MLO panels that might explain the common neutral. ;)


________________________
Wes Gerrans
Instructor
Northwest Kansas Technical College
Goodland, KS
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

What if this is a back feed circuit from a 120V portable generator. Open the main, open all other 2-pole breakers, close the jumped 30A 2-pole breaker start the generator and all one-pole circuit breakers are energized from portable generator.
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Originally posted by bphgravity:
That's not a white conductor being used as an ungrounded conductor without being reidentified is it? :D

1. The neutrals and grounds are combined on both panels, with no sign of a GEC anywhere, so it's presumable neither of these panels are the first means of disconnect for the service.
2. One of these panels is not the first means of disconnect in any event, so the neutrals and grounds should be divided on at least one of them.
3. Pick a brand, any brand: I see Siemens, GE, and what are the mystery all-black breakers? I think I spot a homeline on the panel to the right, but it's a bit too blurry to be sure.

I'm sure if the picture were zoomed out, we'd probably have more to say. :D

Advise to call an electrician. ;)
Click to expand...
Ckt #13 on the right looks like a Challenger or Westinghouse style breaker. Ckts. 5, 7, 9 on the right are definately Siemans breakers in a GE loadcenter. The panel on the left doesn't have the bonding jumper installed, while the one on the right does. Maybe the wires connecting the the left side panel to the right side are BUS EXTENSIONS. ;)

Call an electrician in to have a gander is this one.
Click to expand...
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

Why is the 100 on left panel turned off ? Was there power on in this house ? Looks like single phase and notice this breaker with jumper is turned on.Yes call an electrician for this one
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

I blew up the breaker in question and there is another problem.


:)


Roger
 
Re: What does this mean (method of breaker wiring)?

Originally posted by donaldsullivan:
What if this is a back feed circuit from a 120V portable generator. Open the main, open all other 2-pole breakers, close the jumped 30A 2-pole breaker start the generator and all one-pole circuit breakers are energized from portable generator.
Click to expand...
I believe Don is 100% correct! Johnny, what do we have for our winner? :p
 
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