What hub and ground screw fit this old Challenger panel?

[Mr. Serious]

First of all, I know that Challenger panels sometimes can have problems. In another one of my threads recently, someone replied and said this style of main breaker is known to sometimes overheat and burn up. But I'm working for a customer who can't afford to do a whole panel replacement. I'm just trying to correct most of what is wrong in the picture without actually replacing the panel. And, I know I need to seal up the top to avoid premature failure from water damage. The existing hub is damaged, it has a 1" plug already in it, but it looks like it's been opened with a hammer so the threads are damaged.

All the labels are missing off the panel. The only reason I suspected it was a Challenger panel was the original breakers all seem to say Challenger. So, I don't know what part number to order for a closure plate for the top of the panel, or for a ground bonding screw (which was apparently never installed). Does anyone recognize it and know what parts I need? Would it be the same parts as for a current model of Eaton panel such as the BRP30B200R?

 

[tom baker]

You can use a wire type MBJ. See 250.66 to size

 

[James L]

Is it Eaton for sure?
There are two breakers I circled which look like Siemens

I honestly couldn't tell which way it went, but I know Challenger was bought out 35 years ago or so. Some say they were bought out by Eaton. Others say their breakers were manufactured by Siemens.

All I know, almost every Challenger breaker I've seen look identical to a Siemens breaker.

Maybe take your picture to a supply house that sells Siemens, and another supply house that sells Eaton

 

[norcal]

Eaton BR is the listed breaker for Challenger, be glad that don't have to use a UL classified breaker. As to hubs, think they the same as FPE, as Challenger had bought FPE in the past, they did not continue to use Zinsco style hubs.

 

[Mr. Serious]

In reply to James L:

The Siemens, HOM, and Eaton breakers were added later. The older breakers that look like they are original to the panel are Challenger. They're the same BR type that was originally Bryant, then Westinghouse, then Challenger, then Cutler-Hammer and now Eaton.

Through the years, the same name has been used for multiple breaker types, not only in the case of Challenger but with all the common names. So it can be confusing for someone who thinks a certain name means a certain breaker type, because it really doesn't.

Another reason I think the panel is Challenger: the main breaker looks very similar to this one posted by Larry Fine in reply #20 to my previous thread about home inspections. The discussion there indicates this type of main breaker has been sold under "Challenger" and "GTE/Sylvania" names.

Here is a better close-up. (The original photo has 16 times more pixels than the version I posted, but was too large to post on the forum.)

 

[tom baker]

Please post picture when you are finished….

 

[jaggedben]

As I mentioned in another recent thread, new Eaton BR breakers, in addition to being labeled Type BR, are also labeled Type C right on the breaker. Assuming the Type C breakers in your photo are proper evidence of the original label, then BR is indeed fine.

I've never heard of that type of main breaker having problems, although I believe it is a Zinsco design. An anecdotal case of one breaker melting down isn't exactly evidence that the breaker design is any worse than other molded case main breakers of similar amperage and vintage. Curious if there's anything more to it than that.

 

[LarryFine]

Is it Eaton for sure?

You should be asking "Is it BR for sure?" We've been suggesting to look at breaker types, not brands.

There are two breakers I circled which look like Siemens

Plus the two above the 30a 1p on the left. I wonder why it's a 30a? The wire doesn't look like a #10.

 

[Mr. Serious]

#12 wire on 30A breaker has already been corrected. I have indeed corrected most of the original things wrong with this panel, but unfortunately I underestimated the job and the homeowner can't afford to pay me more. So, it's just setting for now. I suppose eventually I will have to go back and finish it up for free, but I need to make some money on other jobs before I can afford to do that.

Is it BR type for sure? I think it's very likely it is, but as mentioned all the original labels are missing. There's no way to look them up by the UL number, is there? That label is actually still there. But I think I tried looking up a panel by that once and didn't come up with anything.
The label says Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. CLASS CTL ENCLOSED PANELBOARD, No.FM 470648.
(possibly 470646 but I think it's 470648)

 

[4x4dually]

Lord, I haven't seen a Challenger panel in years. I remember when they were bought and became Eaton BR type. Was in like, what, around 1995 or something? I started apprentice work in 1992. It wasn't too many years after that I don't think....but then again, I have CRS so who knows.

EDIT: Been looking for when Challenger was bought out. I can't find much, but if Challenger Electrical Equipment Corporation was part of Westinghouse Electric Corporation as stated by the COMPETITIVE IMPACT STATEMENT found here

https://www.justice.gov/atr/case-document/file/970621/download

then it was 1994 when Eaton acquired Westinghouse Electric Corporation's distribution and control unit for $1.1 billion.

Eaton Corporation -- Company History

www.company-histories.com

I'm not much of legal jargon....but that appears and seems to be the timeframe to my recollections....if anyone actually gives a rodents rear end. LOL

 

[jaggedben]

Westinghouse branded BR breakers have been seen in the wild, but they don't have the type C designation to be used in Challenger panels. That seems to have appeared after Eaton acquired the line and started selling it under the Cutler Hammer brand. The relationship of Challenger to Bryant/Westinghouse is, at least to me, still murky.

 

[norcal]

Westinghouse branded BR breakers have been seen in the wild, but they don't have the type C designation to be used in Challenger panels. That seems to have appeared after Eaton acquired the line and started selling it under the Cutler Hammer brand. The relationship of Challenger to Bryant/Westinghouse is, at least to me, still murky.

After Westinghouse bought Challenger, the Bryant/Westinghouse, BR circuit breakers were listed and branded Challenger, for Challenger, panels & the Challenger design panel was used for both Westinghouse, & Challenger product lines.

 

[LarryFine]

Westinghouse branded BR breakers have been seen in the wild, but they don't have the type C designation to be used in Challenger panels.

If the Challenger panel in question is rated for BR breakers, you're still okay.

 

[jaggedben]

After Westinghouse bought Challenger, the Bryant/Westinghouse, BR circuit breakers were listed and branded Challenger, for Challenger, panels & the Challenger design panel was used for both Westinghouse, & Challenger product lines.

Where did you get that info? Were you working with those panels at the time?