What is a Microwave?

[petersonra]

Permanent Any object that is intended to remain in place for more than
180 days in any consecutive 12-month period.

from nfpa glossary of terms, but not defined this way in NFPA70. But indicative perhaps of intent. It certainly is the intent that the microwave remain in place more than 180 days of the year.

 

[gadfly56]

so it's permanent if you have to use a tool to remove it? where is that in the code?

Yes. You won't find it in the code, but that's a separate matter. We could do a quick show of hands and get a consensus, which is how the NEC goes about it anyway. Anyone who feels comfortable with "if you don't need a tool to remove it, it's not permanent", raise your hand. :bye:

OK, I see you did some digging while I was answering. When you vacate the dorm for winter break and take the microwave with you, or if they are issued by the school and they collect them and lock them away, then they would definitely not be permanent.

 

[charlie b]

Can you post a screen cap of a typical suite?

Edited to correct the description. The door to the unit is on the far left wall. You walk into the space between the two closets (top left) and the bathroom (bottom left). You walk through an open doorway to get to the sleeping area. The two beds go against the bottom wall, and the desks on the top wall.

 

[gadfly56]

I'll try.

Looks good, but is it only half the picture? The room labeled "Dorm A208" looks to be a single bedroom. The area to the left appears to be the bathroom, with two stalls up top and two sinks at the bottom. Is there another bedroom out of view to the left that has access to the bathroom? There appears to be a door going into that area.

 

[charlie b]

Looks good, but is it only half the picture?

I edited my post after you posted this question. Is it clearer now?

 

[gadfly56]

I edited my post after you posted this question. Is it clearer now?

That helps a lot. My question remains, what's happening off left? It looks like there is a doorway to another space. Is it a living room?

 

[charlie b]

That helps a lot. My question remains, what's happening off left? It looks like there is a doorway to another space. Is it a living room?

Again, after taking a closer look at the room I am showing, I realized that that corridor is to the left of the image. I revised my description above to correct this information. Mea culpa.

 

[LarryFine]

My opinion is that the microwave is definitely not a permanent provision for cooking, even though they'll be provided. They won't even be placed until after final inspection. The important thing is providing for the expected load when laying out the circuits, so you don't attempt to power more than one per circuit.

 

[mopowr steve]

Seems like a nightmare labeling panels when receptacles from one dorm run into another. Weird looking at the top of the room

 

[gadfly56]

Again, after taking a closer look at the room I am showing, I realized that that corridor is to the left of the image. I revised my description above to correct this information. Mea culpa.

OK, now I've got it. That far left space is the common corridor.

This is looking less and less like a dwelling unit. Even if provision is made for a microwave, there's no space that's designated for it and you might not even have one. Yeah, dormitory without a microwave. It could happen. :roll:

 

[sameguy]

Dwelling unit, where do you plug the hot plate in? Well that's all I had.
How about the giant computer entertainment center?
Washer/ dryer?
No code book in front of me, got time to rfi before the bid?
I don't see a dwelling unit, no frig, sink, stove.

 

[GeorgeB]

Charlie, can you approach it another way? Is this an additional facility where you can obtain consumption history of an existing installation to establish service load?

 

[MyCleveland]

Charlie, can you approach it another way? Is this an additional facility where you can obtain consumption history of an existing installation to establish service load?

How does that help in resolving the design question ?
Past load history would only be helpful in minimizing a service increase with the NEW design added onto the (history x 1.25).

 

[charlie b]

Seems like a nightmare labeling panels when receptacles from one dorm run into another.

That's actually not a problem. Each dorm room will get 2 circuits for general purpose receptacles, and those circuits are not shared with any other dorm room. We will put 2 or more of the TVs on the same circuit, so that circuit directory will say, "TV rooms 1, 2, 3, and 4." Not too confusing, I think.

 

[charlie b]

Charlie, can you approach it another way? Is this an additional facility where you can obtain consumption history of an existing installation to establish service load?

No. The site of this future building is merely dirt at the moment.

 

[kwired]

If you do call it a dwelling unit, NEC will require at least two 1500VA SABC's. Might be easier to determine how you can apply any demand factors but you are also starting with three times the base load as you are with just a 1000 watt microwave for this "kitchen".

 

[Strathead]

it is certainly there for cooking purposes. Are you trying to claim that it is not there for the tenants? Or that the occupants are not tenants?

No, I am claiming it isn't provisions for cooking. Any more than any other outlet. any outlet in any hotel room can power up a table top burner, or a toaster oven or a microwave. That isn't provisions for cooking.

 

[LarryFine]

I concur.