What is the best way to wire this panel?

[PaulMmn]

I know they're supposed to be waterproof, but I've never liked the idea of the main breaker panel being outdoors in the weather. Too many scenes from This Old House showing a rusted-out hulk, I suppose. Although one of the guys I work with had his weather head leaking water into his breaker box in the basement, so there's no justice.

 

[oldsparky52]

Although one of the guys I work with had his weather head leaking water into his breaker box in the basement, so there's no justice.

I saw a service main leaking water in the back room of a convenience store. The metering was done at the pole (CTs), u/g conduit and wire from the pole to the service disconnect inside the convenience store. Someone had connected the neutral with the neutral conductor looking straight up (at the pole), so when it rained, it pushed water inside the neutral into the service disconnect.

 

[Coppersmith]

Forgot to mention: the maximum length of the additional wire from the old branch wiring to the new breakers is under six feet so no new AFCI's, yay!

 

[growler]

It's amazing the number of additional rules I had to abide by to do this panel change.

It didn't sound simple at all to me.

I kind of liked the UF idea you had to start with but this is probably better in the long run.

Some things you just cant find an easy way to do no matter how hard you try.

 

[ptonsparky]

Now that you’re done, and I cannot see the project from here, would moving the meter have been easier?

 

[romex jockey]

It's amazing the number of additional rules I had to abide by to do this panel change. Since I used a trough, I had to avoid more than 30 CCC in any cross sectional area.

I believe 310.15 (A) 2 ex addresses this

~RJ~

 

[kwired]

I believe 310.15 (A) 2 ex addresses this

~RJ~

10 feet or 10% of circuit length, whichever is less, you can use the higher ampacity.

In a situation like OP is in you would need to determine length of each cable, unless a rather large house most will probably have less than 10 feet allowed to apply here for the higher amapcity.

Not saying it is impossible to use this allowance, but likely not all that practical in your average dwelling either.

Larger facilities with a lot of long home runs, this allowance becomes more practical to use.

 

[Coppersmith]

would moving the meter have been easier?

I can't see how moving the meter would have made this project any easier. Not only would I have all the additional work of moving the meter (requiring a shutdown), I still would have had to:
* install a panel outside;
* penetrate the wall and install conduit to the inside;
* install a box/trough to intercept the cables (or use the old panel as a j-box);
* run new wires from outside to inside and connect to intercepted cables.

I will post some photos when the job is complete.

As an aside, the client was initially asking whether she needed a larger service than her current 100 amps. I explained I could put in a larger service, but it would be more expensive since the meter, weatherhead, and feeders would have to be changed. She was reluctant to spend the additional money, but was also concerned she would be under powered with a 100 amp panel if she added appliances later. I offered her a "convertible panel" that started out at 100 amps and could be easily converted to 200 amps if and when she decided to spend the additional money to upgrade the meter. She liked this idea and it sold the job. The convertible panel is a 200 amp panel with an added backfed 100 amp main. The 200 amp main is marked as a spare.

 

[oldsparky52]

I offered her a "convertible panel" that started out at 100 amps and could be easily converted to 200 amps if and when she decided to spend the additional money to upgrade the meter. She liked this idea and it sold the job. The convertible panel is a 200 amp panel with an added backfed 100 amp main. The 200 amp main is marked as a spare.

Excellent salesmanship.

 

[DBoone]

Copper, I like the idea of a covertable panel for a situation like that. Nice sale....sell...I don’t know

 

[LarryFine]

The 200 amp main is marked as a spare.

Yes, but is it suitable for backfed use?

 

[Coppersmith]

Yes, but is it suitable for backfed use?

Not sure if you are being serious with the smiling emoticon there. The manufacturer sells a retaining clip for this panel to hold the back fed breaker so I think yes. Why wouldn't it be? I thought all panels could be backfed.

 

[LarryFine]

Not sure if you are being serious with the smiling emoticon there.

Moi? Be serious? Be serious!

No, I was kiddingly referring to your suggestion of using the 200a breaker in the future to supply a load.

 

[oldsparky52]

Moi? Be serious? Be serious!

No, I was kiddingly referring to your suggestion of using the 200a breaker in the future to supply a load.

I thought it was future MB if she wanted to upgrade the 100A service to a 200A service. Only change out the meter base and new service conductors to the 200A MB. I guess you would have to upgrade the GEC also.

 

[DBoone]

I thought it was future MB if she wanted to upgrade the 100A service to a 200A service. Only change out the meter base and new service conductors to the 200A MB. I guess you would have to upgrade the GEC also.

That is what I think Copper means. Upgrade to 200A service and land the new entrance conductors on the 200

 

[LarryFine]

That is what I think Copper means. Upgrade to 200A service and land the new entrance conductors on the 200

I knew that. I was making a joke (or so I thought :roll that calling it a "spare" suggested future use as a load breaker, not a supply breaker.

Kinda loses something when it has to be explained.

 

[oldsparky52]

I knew that. I was making a joke (or so I thought :roll that calling it a "spare" suggested future use as a load breaker, not a supply breaker.

Kinda loses something when it has to be explained.

:lol:

Sorry about that. I should have known it was a joke. :ashamed:

My wife tells me to not tell jokes because when I have to explain it, ... it's not funny.

 

[kwired]

I knew that. I was making a joke (or so I thought :roll that calling it a "spare" suggested future use as a load breaker, not a supply breaker.

Kinda loses something when it has to be explained.

Most such breakers probably don't have designated line and load terminals so it could be used to supply a load, and since it is likely not a plug on breaker you kind of are not backfeeding it.

 

[oldsparky52]

Most such breakers probably don't have designated line and load terminals so it could be used to supply a load, and since it is likely not a plug on breaker you kind of are not backfeeding it.

Since it's twice the rating of the main, it's basically a bus tap with a switch.

 

[Coppersmith]

I guess I could have labeled it "For future expansion", but labeled tape is expensive.

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