LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
No, but that's the result every time I look at an electric bill. :roll:
What is the power of an incandescent lamp at 200v 5A?
- Thread starter Electric-Light
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mivey
Senior Member
No need to worry yet; I'll run about 33k/yr with some months over 4k.
mivey
Senior Member
I did at my previous location. I also paid for street lights on my water bill (a carry-over from the days when the water system had the only available billing system). Many utilities are multi-service providers.
The point for Larry was that the usage I quoted might be high since he does not use electric heat strips.
Then he might not be as profligate as your figures suggested.
mivey
Senior Member
I gave him extra because he's the man!
Indeed. A Fine man (so maybe he works for some sort of law enforcement agency, or a librarian....?)
In post #61 he mentioned power company so it would have been reasonable to assume that his question related to electrical energy. His subsequent post #81 confirmed that his power company didn't charge for gas. I think this is the normal situation - I have quite a few friends and relatives in the USA and those who use gas pay for it separately.
Average electrical energy consumption per household is about 4,700 kWh in UK and about double that in USA. Say 9,000 kWh.
That's the basis on which I asked you if you thought Larry was profligate when you guessed at 13,500 kWh.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
The Man Song
Oh, Lord, it's getting deep in here. :roll:
grin But, a cop? Never! Librarian? If she's cute. Reasonable and accurate.
I really have no idea. I've never tallied it up. That sounds too much like work.
mivey
Senior Member
But if he bought gas from a power company, gas company, or the yard-broom man, the company he paid does not impact the kWh used. The only impact on kWh was whether or not he had gas appliances instead of being total electric.
In 2008, the average residential U.S. customer used 10,913 kWh
Really it was just a swing based on the reported sales. The annual residential use in Virginia is 14,071 kWh. The biggest (Virginia Electric) has an average of 13,877. There were 34 utilities and the mean (average of the two in the middle) was 13,626. 13,500 seemed like a nice round number for Larry.
Add: The Virginia averages for different utilities ranged from 9,720 kWh/yr/residence (A & N Electric Coop) to 23,301 kWh/yr/residence (Town of Wakefield).
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mivey
Senior Member
Here are the Virginia Companies with their kWh/yr/residence and average ?/kWh:
A & N Electric Coop | 9,720 kWh | 12.6?
Appalachian Power Co | 14,968 kWh | 7.4?
BARC Electric Coop Inc | 10,036 kWh | 13.6?
Bristol Virginia Utilities | 15,386 kWh | 9.5?
Central Virginia Electric Coop | 15,377 kWh | 8.5?
City of Bedford | 13,916 kWh | 9.7?
City of Danville | 12,756 kWh | 10.0?
City of Franklin | 15,464 kWh | 9.4?
City of Manassas | 13,400 kWh | 9.8?
City of Martinsville | 11,706 kWh | 9.6?
City of Radford | 12,467 kWh | 9.1?
City of Salem | 12,140 kWh | 8.5?
Community Electric Coop | 17,110 kWh | 11.6?
Craig-Botetourt Electric Coop | 11,427 kWh | 11.9?
Harrisonburg City of | 11,733 kWh | 9.0?
Kentucky Utilities Co | 16,520 kWh | 6.4?
Mecklenburg Electric Coop, Inc | 11,579 kWh | 12.4?
Northern Neck Elec Coop, Inc | 12,468 kWh | 13.2?
Northern Virginia Elec Coop | 14,398 kWh | 12.8?
PEPCO Energy Services | 13,220 kWh | 10.5?
Powell Valley Electric Coop | 14,532 kWh | 9.1?
Prince George Electric Coop | 16,005 kWh | 11.9?
Rappahannock Electric Coop | 15,338 kWh | 12.9?
Shenandoah Valley Elec Coop | 15,333 kWh | 11.7?
Southside Electric Coop, Inc | 13,444 kWh | 13.5?
The Potomac Edison Co | 15,553 kWh | 7.0?
Town of Blackstone | 11,389 kWh | 8.6?
Town of Culpeper | 10,113 kWh | 10.9?
Town of Elkton | 11,006 kWh | 10.7?
Town of Front Royal | 13,807 kWh | 9.1?
Town of Richlands | 15,404 kWh | 8.7?
Town of Wakefield | 23,301 kWh | 8.9?
Virginia Electric & Power Co | 13,877 kWh | 9.7?
Virginia Tech Electric Service | 10,906 kWh | 8.2?
You made my point.
Don't your librarians fine you for overdue books?Oh, Lord, it's getting deep in here. :roll:
So, if you're fine man...........
mivey
Senior Member
Considering (among other things) that:
1) The US has the wide ranging areas (like from Alaska to Florida), and comparing the average across such a broad area is probably meaningless.
2) Comparing the US to the UK makes the area much broader and much less meaningful.
3) The average usage in Larry's state is close to what I quoted for Larry.
4) Profligate mean recklessly wasteful.
5) Being average in your local area is not a good indicator of being profligate.
6) Being less than 24% above a national average that covers a broad expanse of territory, lifestyles, and customs is not a good indicator of being profligate.
7) Being below the average for your local area is not a good indicator of being profligate.
If your point was that your basis for your question of profligacy was conjectural, then I made your point. :grin:
It's a fair point although I didn't actually make such a comparison.
I didn't compare them. I had done some previous searching on this for a different topic and the numbers that came up indicated that the US consumption was about twice that of UK. I used that to jump to the 9,000 kWh. It was evidently an underestimation.
But you included gas. See post #71.
I know. I don't use words that I don't know the meaning of.
Nor prudent.
Nor prudent.
Quite right.
It doesn't tell you anything more than below average. It could be anything from an average family being parsimonious to a single occupancy bachelor pad with no care being given to economy of use.
It was a little more than just conjecture, but let that pass.
Moving on a little.
USA uses more energy per capita than any other country. The economy has supported a lifestyle that others envy.
mivey
Senior Member
No, I did not include gas in my estimate. I don't know what the gas/electric mixture is in Virginia and did not bother to look. Nor did I make a load calculation based on total electric vs a gas/electric mix.
I assumed he had the average profile of an average home in Virginia. Your assumption of a profligate calculation was certainly a reasonable query. After your post, I looked and found that Larry did indeed have gas heat. But so do the other people in Virginia.
If one were to assume that a lot of his heating load was already covered by gas BTUs, and the average person did not, you might could make the argument that he was using more than the average bear. I really did not give it that much thought and certainly did not consider him to be profligate, but probably better off than the average guy as he seems to be one to excel.
My quip about giving him extra because he was "the man" was a joke in reference to a different thread.
Of course you do. I was just summarizing.
Right you are.
An exaggeration on my part for effect only.
Maybe you need to tighten up on your research. While we probably make the top 7% or so, we are not the top user per capita.
Of that there is no doubt.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Enough to power at least 95 posts.
mivey
Senior Member
I got nowhere else to go! I got nowhere else to g... I got nothin' else. :grin:Enough to power at least 95 posts.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
You're an officer and a gentleman.
glene77is
Senior Member
- Location
- Memphis, TN
GAR,
What is the sampling rate of your RMS meter ?
I doubt that it is stated directly in the meter documentation.
Probably refers to a range of "50 to 400 Hz accuracy".
Nyquist considerations lead me to say the sampling rate would be 1 KHz
(twice the max frequency of the waveform).
Spikes of information may be lost between samples,
thus the loss of accuracy past the 400 Hz frequencies.
(That is not the only reason for inaccuracies at higher frequencies
but electricians usually don't get into R.F. energy and 2piFC calculations.)
Your comments are always interesting.
gar
Senior Member
- Location
- Ann Arbor, Michigan
- Occupation
- EE
100809-0728 EST
glene77is:
I don't know.
Somewhere I may have a hot wire ammeter good to maybe 30 mHz. Back in the 50s I believe Ballatine made an RMS voltmeter using log amplifiers that was at least good thru the audio range.
Some time back I played with some waveforms into my Fluke 87, but at low frequencies. I believe I tried a rectangular pulse of 10 % duty cycle. Reading was not too bad relative to calculated value. On a sine wave the 87 isn't much good above 10 to 20 kHz in contrast to a Simpson 260 good to several hundred kHz.
The TED energy monitor only outputs at 1 second increments and I have no idea how it handles badly distorted 60 Hz waveforms.
Teridian has some energy measurement chips, I don't know where the specs are at the moment. Their chip will use sampled data.
.
glene77is:
I don't know.
Somewhere I may have a hot wire ammeter good to maybe 30 mHz. Back in the 50s I believe Ballatine made an RMS voltmeter using log amplifiers that was at least good thru the audio range.
Some time back I played with some waveforms into my Fluke 87, but at low frequencies. I believe I tried a rectangular pulse of 10 % duty cycle. Reading was not too bad relative to calculated value. On a sine wave the 87 isn't much good above 10 to 20 kHz in contrast to a Simpson 260 good to several hundred kHz.
The TED energy monitor only outputs at 1 second increments and I have no idea how it handles badly distorted 60 Hz waveforms.
Teridian has some energy measurement chips, I don't know where the specs are at the moment. Their chip will use sampled data.
.
Correct. I didn't take account of the relatively small populations of the Scandinavian countries.
Mea culpa.
Per capita USA comes out about 5th in the league table of about 200 countries. So, a top 2.5% spot.
That's for all electrical energy consumed by country. Industrial, commercial, and residential.
The results might be a bit different with a residential only comparison.
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