What??? Not 100???

[Chamuit]

Strange as it may seem, last night I had a student verbally (and out loud) challenge me about a question I marked wrong on his test.

This is a good lesson in getting along in a professional manner with the AHJ. You being the "AHJ" and he being the "contractor/tradesmen."

 

[K8MHZ]

LOL that's a cool way to remember the conversion Mark! Why didn't I have a math guy like you as a friend growing up instead of hell raisers and beer drinkers? LOL

Dude.....

By the time I was 18 I had been in every bar within 10 miles of my house. I studied martial arts and hung out at the roughest bars in town. I started racing motorcycles when I was 15. Right now there is a custom Harley Low Rider sitting in my garage yearning for spring to come.

I led a dual life back then. In school I hung out with the kids that did well in school, but after school was my time. My biker / hell raisin' buddies cared not about math so it was never discussed unless it related to motorcycles.

 

[straynote6]

And finally, here's my take on the entire matter.

On Monday, I asked the student to bring his test to me and upon which, I gave him credit for his answer. His "thanks", barely audible to myself (at close range) and delivered most insincerely, rang out loudly to my spirit. I guess I had him figured right from the beginning.

If he's watching this forum, here's my best advice... try to build some new bridges. This one's been burnt.

 

[Besoeker]

The question: What is the formula for Apparent Power?
Correct answer = Papp = IV
His answer: IV

I marked it wrong and he became livid. Shouting profanity laced comments.

Was I wrong and too critical?

Mathematically, the multiplication process is commutative in this case i.e. the order of the terms does not change the result.
Thus V*I = I*V. You'd get the same answer regardless of order.

So yes, without a shadow of doubt, you were wrong to mark it wrong.

Whilst I neither excuse nor condone the behaviour* of the student, I can somewhat understand his ire but not his manner of expressing it.

*British English spelling

 

[realolman]

In hindsight, maybe I overstepped the bounds of what is right and what is wrong.

Clearly, I knew the individual understood the question and answer and there's no doubt in my mind, he understands the formula. Having said that, I'll re-evaluate the whole scenario on Monday, God willing.

I gotta give it to ya on that one... there are so many people unwilling to change their position on anything ...even when presented with the facts that clearly show them to be wrong.... especially when there is a little authority involved ....Good for you.

And although no one can condone poor public behavior, ...if "Clearly, I knew the individual understood the question and answer and there's no doubt in my mind, he understands the formula." , Why the heck did you mark him wrong? Why didn't you realize your question wasn't so hot?

Seems to be a lot of people out there eager to exercise their little bit of advantage over others... I think his outrage is certainly understandable. Especially when in the context of the class, the instructor certainly should have known (and DID know) this person's abilities. Why mess with people who try? Mess with people who DON'T try

 

[LarryFine]

Mathematically, the multiplication process is commutative in this case i.e. the order of the terms does not change the result.
Thus V*I = I*V. You'd get the same answer regardless of order.

Methinks you missed the disagreement. It wasn't the order of the V and the I, it was the omission of "Papp =".

The question: What is the formula for Apparent Power?
Correct answer = Papp = IV
His answer: IV

 

[straynote6]

i gotta give it to ya on that one... There are so many people unwilling to change their position on anything ...even when presented with the facts that clearly show them to be wrong.... Especially when there is a little authority involved ....good for you.

And although no one can condone poor public behavior, ...if "clearly, i knew the individual understood the question and answer and there's no doubt in my mind, he understands the formula." , why the heck did you mark him wrong? Why didn't you realize your question wasn't so hot?

Seems to be a lot of people out there eager to exercise their little bit of advantage over others... I think his outrage is certainly understandable. Especially when in the context of the class, the instructor certainly should have known (and did know) this person's abilities. Why mess with people who try? Mess with people who don't try

are you serious??? Do you live on earth???

 

[__dan]

His answer: IV

and he became

his final test score was 99%.

I get a kick from this thread, great reponses.

The guy can yell and do the work, it's hilarious.

I have, in the past ,made the mistake of not yelling quick and hard as necessary. I have learnid the error of my ways

The yelling thins the blood and gets the heart going. I'm sure it's a rush.

 

[mivey]

And finally, here's my take on the entire matter.

On Monday, I asked the student to bring his test to me and upon which, I gave him credit for his answer. His "thanks", barely audible to myself (at close range) and delivered most insincerely, rang out loudly to my spirit. I guess I had him figured right from the beginning.

If he's watching this forum, here's my best advice... try to build some new bridges. This one's been burnt.

So instead of trying to sit down and talk to this kid you decided to use the chance to see if he would bow down to you for so magnanimously giving him the grade you should have given in the first place?

What were you expecting? You already know the kid has issues. This would have been an opportunity to help him. Instead you thought you would just give in enough so you could watch him fail and then you could be justified in your position that you were "right from the beginning". Was the yelling of obscenities not enough to tell you he has problems? In what world did you expect him to make a 180 degree turn?

Why did you not try to help him instead of setting him up for what you would say was a failure. This was clearly a test he was destined to fail. But did you fail also? What kind of spite does it take to do that? You got your pound of flesh so I hope you feel better but maybe you should think about what you are doing.

I will concede that there may be no amount of counseling that will help this guy but what does not trying say about you? The difference is that you should know better.

I hope you are different than what these few posts indicate but look at how you come across:

...Was I wrong and too critical?

By the way, his final test score was 99%.

The comment about him still making 99% indicates a "who does he think he is after all" or "I'll show this guy a thing or two" attitude. Did you come here seeking advice or vindication? Think back about your frame of mind when you first posted and look at yourself. It would be impossible for us to know.

Perhaps Monday, I should re-inform the class that the best thing I have to offer them after school is over are these...

1. Though I do not hold all the keys to their future, I do hold one... my personal endorsement to their abilities, attitude and attendance.

2. A letter of recommendation that speaks volume about them personally.

So you are teaching a class about their future occupation and the best thing they can take from the class is some endorsement from you that is worth "volumes"? How is that better than what you teach?

I can tell you these endorsements carry little weight unless you are somebody I have complete faith in. They matter a little but I put more stock in my personal interview than I do on what someone I don't know says. Even then, I watch their performance and attitude on the job until I can have faith in them.

Clearly, I knew the individual understood the question and answer and there's no doubt in my mind, he understands the formula. Having said that, I'll re-evaluate the whole scenario on Monday, God willing.

That sounds good. But did you approach it with a genuine attempt at helping the guy or with an attitude that you would throw him a bone and if he was not slobberingly grateful then you were done with him?

Did you feel entitled to some kind of apology? Personally, I think he should give you one for his outburst. You said that you would evaluate the scenario if God was willing. If that is how you feel may you recall 1 Cor 6:7

Look, I'm not saying I would not be peeved either. I'm no better than anybody else and was quite the hot-head in my youth. But at least here we can step back and look at the situation and get a better frame of mind. Use this as an opportunity to look at yourself and maybe do things like we would wish we had done them instead of how we probably would then regret it later.

 

[straynote6]

Are you his Dad?

 

[mivey]

Are you his Dad?

Nope. Just some guy on a forum making observations. Does it sound to you like I am defending him? I think he has issues. If he was my kid I would be giving him the business.

Let him come here and ask for input and I'll give him my 2 cents on how wrong he was.

My comments are directed at where you might have went wrong and what opportunities you have.

It's just my opinion and only matters to you if you let it.

 

[realolman]

I do live on earth. ...and you?

I do live on earth. ...and you?

are you serious??? Do you live on earth???

....why do you ask?

I think in the beginning of this thread, even though you authored a poor question, you had lots of support, but by now you 've pretty well demonstrated why someone would want to yell at you.

I want to yell at you.

 

[Besoeker]

Methinks you missed the disagreement. It wasn't the order of the V and the I, it was the omission of "Papp =".

Youthinks correct....:grin:

 

[JWCELECTRIC]

And finally, here's my take on the entire matter.

On Monday, I asked the student to bring his test to me and upon which, I gave him credit for his answer. His "thanks", barely audible to myself (at close range) and delivered most insincerely, rang out loudly to my spirit. I guess I had him figured right from the beginning.

If he's watching this forum, here's my best advice... try to build some new bridges. This one's been burnt.

I hope you only gave him half credit for his half answer.

 

[LarryFine]

I hope you only gave him half credit for his half answer.

Ooh! A 95.5 instead of a 100, just for being a brat.

I like it!

 

[JWCELECTRIC]

Ooh! A 95.5 instead of a 100, just for being a brat.

I like it!

The kid earned himself lots of credit for next time he almost answers correctly. He must have parents that ground him for not getting all A's

 

[straynote6]

The kid earned himself lots of credit for next time he almost answers correctly. He must have parents that ground him for not getting all A's

Gosh... I hope he doesn't still live with his parents - he's in his 40's.

Wow! that could explain some things! Never considered it.

 

[mivey]

...he's in his 40's...

That's a shame. How unfortunate that he hasn't learned better. It is so much tougher for someone who is older to change. Better to catch them when they are young.

"Nip it in the bud. First sign of youngsters going wrong, you've got to nip it in the bud.
...
Nip it. You go read any book you want on the subject of child discipline and you'll find every one of them is in favor of bud-nipping."-you guess who

As for the 40's something student: I'm still curious as to why you did not talk it out with him. Had he been demonstrating bad behavior or a confrontational attitude the whole class or was this an isolated incident? Did you figure him for a lost cause? Do you not do well in one-on-one confrontations? Did you think he might have a change in character after you changed his grade without any discussion? Do you plan on discussing your policy on outbursts with him?

For down-the-road: How are you going to handle future outbursts? Do you plan on being more tolerant in your exam grading in the future?

A lot of other things come to mind that might be worth some pre-thought before future classes: Would your approach have been different if the student were older or younger (+/- 20 years)? What if it had been a female student? What if it were someone you knew? What if it were someone you despise? Thinking about these things now might keep you from being speechless but maybe prepared to give an appropriate response.

Thanks for the input as it certainly helps me to think about trying to be a little more prepared for the unexpected.

 

[K8MHZ]

That's a shame. How unfortunate that he hasn't learned better. It is so much tougher for someone who is older to change. Better to catch them when they are young.

Tough, indeed, but not impossible.

I think I was about 40 when a person I did volunteer work with changed me from an egotistical hot head to a much more reasonable individual.

He witnessed a little confrontation I had on a search and rescue effort with an individual from a neighboring county. He took me under his wing (he outranked me in the organization we were part of) and taught me, by example, how not to handle people I want to strangle. I still have the urge, but have toned it back by an order of magnitude.

In fact, last night at a board meeting no one could tell me what 'the 2008 electrical code' was. In Michigan we have the NEC, the MRC and several local amendments. All I asked is which one was going to be enforced and got no answer from their attorney. He just babbled on and on about 'whatever the state uses'. He didn't even know the MRC was written by the state. I just let it go and sat down. When I was 30 I would have been less than cordial, trust me, and I can assure you I would have yelled at someone.

 

[mlnk]

answer for AC systems is:

Apparent power(in VA) = (Iz)(Iz)Z or (Iz) squared times Z that is,

impedence current in amps squared times impedence in ohms

also, another correct answer is: the square root of (true power squared plus reactive power squared)

For DC systems, the answer is:

IV or (I)(I)R I squared times R or V squared / R

How about VA ? Would that be correct?

This is why most tests are a tad controversial...You do not know what answer the so-called "instructor" thinks is "correct."