What should I do?

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powerslave

powerslave

Senior Member
Location
Land of Lincoln
I had a service call today from a siding company that is doing work on a number of homes in the area that have sustained damage from a hail storm earlier in the year. The owner of the company informed me that the house they are working on had an electrical problem where the main breaker tripped and they can't reset it. I went out and found that there was a dead short between the panel housing and one of the lines in the panel. I pulled the meter and after trouble shooting determined that they must have driven a nail through the back of the panel into the buss bar. I recommended changing out the panel (100-amp). I told this to both the homeowner and the siding company supervisor. I told them I could change out the panel first thing in the morning as it was already late in the day and I would have to get a permit and materials. The supervisor told me he would speak to the homeowner and call me with their decision. About an hour later I had not heard from him and gave him a call. I told him I needed to know his decision so that I could schedule the job and move some other things already scheduled around. He said he would get back to me. At about 6:30 he called and told me the situation was taken care of. I asked how that was possible as it was too late in the day to get a permit. He told me that it was indeed a nail that penetrated the panel and shorted the buss bar and that they had someone (electrician?) pull it out and now the main breaker set and the homeowner was satisfied. I informed him I would still need to invoice him for the service call/ troubleshoot. He said O.K.

I plan on including in the invoice to the siding company that I still recommend that the panel needs to be changed out. But should I send something to the homeowner stating this? My fear is being liable if anything should happen. My thoughts being you don't put a nail through a panel into a buss bar shorting it out, pull out the nail and everything is fine. If there is damage to the buss bar (which I'm sure there is) there is the potential for a problem. I am afraid of the liability of being the EC who put my hands on the job. I spoke to a fellow EC who said I may even think about notifying the AHJ just to indemnify myself. What should I do?
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
State in no uncertain terms on the invoice it is your professional opinion that the panel needs changed and is, according to you, a fire hazard.
 
mcclary's electrical

mcclary's electrical

Senior Member
Location
VA
powerslave said:
I had a service call today from a siding company that is doing work on a number of homes in the area that have sustained damage from a hail storm earlier in the year. The owner of the company informed me that the house they are working on had an electrical problem where the main breaker tripped and they can't reset it. I went out and found that there was a dead short between the panel housing and one of the lines in the panel. I pulled the meter and after trouble shooting determined that they must have driven a nail through the back of the panel into the buss bar. I recommended changing out the panel (100-amp). I told this to both the homeowner and the siding company supervisor. I told them I could change out the panel first thing in the morning as it was already late in the day and I would have to get a permit and materials. The supervisor told me he would speak to the homeowner and call me with their decision. About an hour later I had not heard from him and gave him a call. I told him I needed to know his decision so that I could schedule the job and move some other things already scheduled around. He said he would get back to me. At about 6:30 he called and told me the situation was taken care of. I asked how that was possible as it was too late in the day to get a permit. He told me that it was indeed a nail that penetrated the panel and shorted the buss bar and that they had someone (electrician?) pull it out and now the main breaker set and the homeowner was satisfied. I informed him I would still need to invoice him for the service call/ troubleshoot. He said O.K.

I plan on including in the invoice to the siding company that I still recommend that the panel needs to be changed out. But should I send something to the homeowner stating this? My fear is being liable if anything should happen. My thoughts being you don't put a nail through a panel into a buss bar shorting it out, pull out the nail and everything is fine. If there is damage to the buss bar (which I'm sure there is) there is the potential for a problem. I am afraid of the liability of being the EC who put my hands on the job. I spoke to a fellow EC who said I may even think about notifying the AHJ just to indemnify myself. What should I do?
Click to expand...

All you have to do is put right on your invoice for your troubleshooting: Panel needs to be replaced ASAP. Please call imediately to schedule permitting and panel changeout. Free Quote available. Thanks, XXXXXX
 
charlie b

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Since you apparently did not see the nail, and did not see the damage the nail caused, it is a stretch to say that a fire hazard does exist. It may exist, and it is certainly enough of a concern to warrant investigation by someone who knows what they are looking at (i.e., a professional electrician). But the symptoms you described could just as easily have been observed, if the nail did nothing more than make contact with a hot conductor, without even causing so much as a scratch in the metal.

I would suggest including your recommendation on your invoice, and finding a way to make sure the homeowner gets a copy of that recommendation. I would further suggest that your recommendation that the panel be replaced should stand, unless and until is it demonstrated that the damage to the panel is insignificant.
 
S

satcom

Senior Member
We see problems from siding contractors all the time, they must low ball almost every job they do, and they are so hungry for the job, they are afraid to inform the customer that electrical some electrical may need to be removed, the customer may not the work done, and if they do get the job, they usually have just do it workers on the job, not anyone that will try to think a little. Yes the nail could of burned the home to the ground if it hit the un protected side, we see these guys pull meter sockets off the wall to force siding behind them, they let the socket mounting screws, to fall into the socket lug area, and that can flash and burn the worker and also burn the building to the ground.
 
O

Ohmy

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
My neighbor hit his service line (before the main) with a sawzall 8 years ago. It blew the blade in half but he never replaced the line. I just found out about this a couple weeks ago. It worries me.
 
ceb58

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
LarryFine said:
This will, of course, make things sticky between the siding company and the customer.
Click to expand...

Who cares, if the siding guys screwed up then they are responsible.

Someone here once posted a form letter they would give the customer to sign if they found any thing in violation but the HO refused to have repaired.
 
P

petey_c

Member
480sparky, Thanks, great form. I stole it then modified it (I did of course, give you credit at the bottom of the form). ceb58, Funny line. I hope I can remember it. petey
 
Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
Most siding guys are "mutts".
I would take care of this as such:



Dear Homeowner,
I was contacted by your siding contractor to diagnose a situation in which the power to your house had been cut off.
I found there to be a potential safety hazard. I did not make the repair. I am sending this letter to inform you that although the power was restored, a hazard may still exist. Please be informed that a licensed electrician should inspect the repair(s) to make certain any hazard does not still exist.

Respectfully,


Worlds best EC
CC - Building Inspector, City of ....


Now you have informed the homeowner, and let the building official be aware of the situation. When building officials receive this type of correspondence, it makes them nervous. ;)
 
T

tyha

Senior Member
Location
central nc
personally, if it were me i would inform the homeowner that it is my job to inform the local building inspector of the hazard so they can inspect so basically you may as well let me fix it. sell! sell! sell! but thats just me.
 
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