What we face hiring new apprentices

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brian john

brian john

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Location
Leesburg, VA
Was watching one of the Sunday news shows, representatives from the District of Columbia is trying a new program for employing the young and unemployed.

In the "NEW" (?) field of green contracting, electrical/HVAC and a few other trades doing retrofits and new construction building. These workers are to be called "Green Collar" workers because this has a better connotation than "Blue Collar".

So the shows host ask, yeah but what type of careers are these for our young people? The answer was decent enough. But the ignorant host I wanted to slap the idiot.

Then he says OK so these are jobs with a future but how good can the pay be? Can these folks make a living doing this work, will they be able to afford living here. Now I am really mad at the JERK, ill informed, stuck up, looking down his nose at what he (AND MANY) consider to be beneath them.
 
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iwire said:
I believe that is collar.
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Yeah Bob I was not trying to be Funny at all with the Card. I wonder where they are getting the Green thing? Most of the young and unemployed in DC either are unemployable at best or simply do not want to work. I see them everyday.
 
Call them green because that sounds better to some then blue.

It's just stupid media gibberish, it has no basis in reality.
 
brian john said:
Maybe the host was right,
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Brian, who cares what a talking head says? If they are speaking they are either getting it wrong or outright lying.

Juts laugh about it all the way to the bank.
 
iwire said:
Brian, who cares what a talking head says? If they are speaking they are either getting it wrong or outright lying.
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The problem is that the talking head is being heard.
When they tell the truth or portray things as they are is one thing but when either through ignorance they misrepresent the truth or through bias they make what amounts to an negative editorial comment on the topic they double (or more) the wrong versus having not said anything.

It's hard enough to motivate kids to choose the skilled labor jobs but when the reports on a program designed to do that has the 'moderator' dismissing that choice...
 
I have tried to hire high school graduates prior to graduation. Speaking to VOTECH classes and guidance counselors.

On the VOTECH, the teachers in two different school systems told me that they can't get students, there are school requirements where the parents at two different meetings with the counselors have to sign papers, in which they are directed that their kids are headed down a path that leads no where (from two different teachers).

After meeting with the students in one class of 12 (from a total of 10 different high schools) and one class of 20 (from at least 10 high schools). In both classes more than 1/2 were sleeping or not paying attention, in asking about this to the teachers they both told me most of the students do not want to be there. They're are given two options leave school or VOTECH. At which point they basically spin a wheel to decide between car mechanic, carpenter or electricity.

With the guidance counselor issue I met with conselors and explained that by April of the senior year, they know who is going to college and who isn't. Just give my card to the ones not going to college, and give me some insight into who was more than a knuckle head. I could hire this person and would assist ALL OTHERS in getting a job in the trades. Never heard back from the guidance counselors.

I hired my daughters friend that had no intent of going to college, he has worked since he was 15 (which I took as a good sign). I asked him what the guidance counselors told him after they found out college was not in his future. He was told that they had others students to help, that were college bound and never heard from them again. He had no clue that there was a possibility of him doing more than driving for pizza delivery.
 
brian john said:
I have tried to hire high school graduates prior to graduation. Speaking to VOTECH classes and guidance counselors.

On the VOTECH, the teachers in two different school systems told me that they can't get students, there are school requirements where the parents at two different meetings with the counselors have to sign papers, in which they are directed that their kids are headed down a path that leads no where (from two different teachers).

After meeting with the students in one class of 12 (from a total of 10 different high schools) and one class of 20 (from at least 10 high schools). In both classes more than 1/2 were sleeping or not paying attention, in asking about this to the teachers they both told me most of the students do not want to be there. They're are given two options leave school or VOTECH. At which point they basically spin a wheel to decide between car mechanic, carpenter or electricity.

With the guidance counselor issue I met with conselors and explained that by April of the senior year, they know who is going to college and who isn't. Just give my card to the ones not going to college, and give me some insight into who was more than a knuckle head. I could hire this person and would assist ALL OTHERS in getting a job in the trades. Never heard back from the guidance counselors.

I hired my daughters friend that had no intent of going to college, he has worked since he was 15 (which I took as a good sign). I asked him what the guidance counselors told him after they found out college was not in his future. He was told that they had others students to help, that were college bound and never heard from them again. He had no clue that there was a possibility of him doing more than driving for pizza delivery.
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There is not eniough time, or pages on this site to discuss this issue,

Quote: "there are school requirements where the parents at two different meetings with the counselors have to sign papers, in which they are directed that their kids are headed down a path that leads no where (from two different teachers)."

These so called teachers, should be removed from the school system, before they do any more damage.

Quote: "They're are given two options leave school or VOTECH. At which point they basically spin a wheel to decide between car mechanic, carpenter or electricity."

Who are these people?

Quote: "He had no clue that there was a possibility of him doing more than driving for pizza delivery"

Anyone that groomed the students into thinking this way, should be removed from the school system ASAP.


Many Vo Tech students, have reached levels of success, beyond that of some of our university grads.
 
brian john said:
two different meetings with the counselors have to sign papers, in which they are directed that their kids are headed down a path that leads no where (from two different teachers).
In both classes more than 1/2 were sleeping or not paying attention, in asking about this to the teachers they both told me most of the students do not want to be there.
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This is just my opinion.

John, looking at this from the teacher's perspective they are probably right. Almost anyone can be successful as a teacher or most other government jobs. They don't need to be very smart, athletic or motivated (many can't pass the courses they were hired to teach). Most construction trades require a little more motivation. If you don't work you don't eat. You are constantly being reqired to prove yourself, it doesn't matter what you did on the last job because it's this job that counts.
Teachers are just part of the great bureaucracy ( they get a check no matter what, success rate not that important). As a contractor you only get paid if you are successful and this may require a bit more effort on your part.

If anyone is just looking for a steady paycheck they are much better off to stay out of the construction trades. On the other hand if they are highy motivated and don't mind a constant challenge then the construction trades may be of value. You don't have to be overly smart but you do have to be ready to work.

I hate to say this but most people prefer the nanny state and a steady paycheck no matter what. :wink:
 
growler said:
On the other hand if they are highy motivated and don't mind a constant challenge then the construction trades may be of value. You don't have to be overly smart but you do have to be ready to work.
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The highly motivated aren't where the problem is.

As to smart, the reading comprehension and math skills required to progress in electrical work are enough to get into college with. If a kid has these smarts and is motivated (and likes building stuff) he'll be pointed toward a design or construction management degree.

My own son has done this (Arch/CM @ CalPoly); but the larger issue is this attitude that NOT going to college is a waste of an opportunity or that the college track is the ONLY choice.

In other parts of the world (eg western EU) the technical and trade options are encouraged and done so with actual education begun MUCH earlier than senior year in HS. It could (and should) be done here as well.
 
I think those dumb ass teachers and adminisrtators forget who built this great country, they just sit back and think it happened out of no where. sort of what they teach in science class, there was no one who made all this it is just here for us so we use it. Work with my hands oh no don't make me do that.
 
I can clearly remember when I was in elementry school Id say from 3rd to 6th grade part of the schools curiculum included hands on science classes, industrial arts, pottery,and so on. The classes were for half the semester for say industrial arts and then would change to some other one. I think that these classes we were required to take help instill a positve and can do attitude in kids. Im sure that there are very few kids nowadays that can even tell you the difference between a screwdriver and philips head. These sorts of classes would probably even be frowned upon by parents, thinking that "I want my kid to go to college and be rich and succesfull" " I dont want my kid in a low brow job".
one time a cabinet maker told me that a customer told his kid (pointing to the carpenter) " you see if you dont go to college youll windeuplike this man"
Parents decide what they want their kids to do without including the kid in the decison. And for all they know the kid really would be happier working with wood or something of that nature.
But its a fact that most of society looks upon blue collar work as a negative thing. even in High School the kids that go off to Vo Tech are usually considered burnouts or loosers. Kids that cant hack it in school. When in reallity everyone is born with a different skill set.
To many parents push their kids into something they really have no interest in doing. When I was a chef I couldnt even begin to tell you how many accountants, buissness type people and so on that made the switch from proffessional work to become cooks because it has been a passion of theirs for their whole lives but never had the nerve to pursue(probaly afraid of what their parents/ peers would think if them)
I bet alot of those green workers arent really lazy, they are just conditioned to think that "blue collar" work is for loosers and they would rather hold out for that imaginary job that will never come.
I myself went to college for four years and studied economics, accounting, and so on and found the education to be great but when I tried my hand at office work I absoulutly hated it and was misserable from the start. I knew that what ever I was going to do in life was going to involve working with my hands.I basically went to college because thats what I thought was expected of me never considering what is going to make me happy. My parents wanted to kill me but to bad i told them this is my life and im going to live it my way and be happy.
 
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brian john said:
He had no clue that there was a possibility of him doing more than driving for pizza delivery.
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I found that teachers and generally anyone who has a career in the education system don't really have a clue about how the real world works outside of the school system. Many teachers mistakenly believe that there's some coorelation between GPA and future success.
 
I am doing a job near DC and I seen that show this mornings. It seemed more political geared than realistic.

I agree that the schools need to do more. You know, do more with less as the saying goes. I know their hands are tied when it comes to being a teacher. Honestly who the heck even wants to be a teacher now a days. I think the whole school system needs re engineered.

Nothing is fair and perfect.
 
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