What we face hiring new apprentices

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I bet if you privatized schools things would change. Capitalism and competition seems to be the way. Yes this would need to be regulated on standards.
 
brian john said:
In the "NEW" (?) field of green contracting, electrical/HVAC and a few other trades doing retrofits and new construction building. These workers are to be called "Green Collar" workers because this has a better connotation than "Blue Collar".

So the shows host ask, yeah but what type of careers are these for our young people? The answer was decent enough. But the ignorant host I wanted to slap the idiot.

Then he says OK so these are jobs with a future but how good can the pay be? Can these folks make a living doing this work, will they be able to afford living here. Now I am really mad at the JERK, ill informed, stuck up, looking down his nose at what he (AND MANY) consider to be beneath them.
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I feel your pain my freind - I too often want to hurt mis-informed people who mis-inform other people - or bring out my 'inner cop' on occassion. ;)

But this "Green" garbage sells.... Right up to the point at which they realize what they are really doing..... Un-like the many other labels like "Organic" (i.e. blessed by a hippy to have been grown 'right'), or "Recycled" i.e. "USED" called "pre-owned" it is still the same thing.... "Green Construction" as a label makes some people "feel better" about spending exorbanant amounts of money to one-up the Jones' about how they 'saved the environment by building a new home'.

A while back I did a faily well publicized "Green Building" where the owner had some wacked idea that engineered lumber was "Recycled" somehow. I was told by the GC to keep my mouth shut about telling him they feed whole trees into a chipper to make the crap and the glue was toxic. No one wants the truth.... They want to ba able to say they were lied to down the line when it comes out that they filled a land-fill with the old building to put up one they really wanted - and that the new stone counter-top will last as long as the color is in style..... Yet they are the first to whine when the STATE tells them they have to follow title-24. They're all "Green" right up to the point where you have to twist their arm to get them through an inspection with some lighting or control they don't want....

Around that same time I had an eager underling who got into the trades looking to do this "Green" stuff - but he got frustrated and quit when he had to be told that "we make things nice for rich people - the bottom line is that is 90% of what we do!" (Because he hated to make switch and cover-plates level or install "energy waster" lights...) He quit on the spot! And good riddens.... His "Eco-nazi" power trip was barely torable...
 
khixxx said:
I am doing a job near DC and I seen that show this mornings. It seemed more political geared than realistic.

I agree that the schools need to do more. You know, do more with less as the saying goes. I know their hands are tied when it comes to being a teacher. Honestly who the heck even wants to be a teacher now a days. I think the whole school system needs re engineered.

Nothing is fair and perfect.
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Been many years since I have been to DC - but it's social and economic woes are not new to anyplace in the country. Who wants to work when they don't think they can compete in the "White Collar World"? Or equate construction labor as being equivalent to working in McD's.... It's perception....

I grew up near Harvard University - a school I knew I could never go to - and HATED them for it. The culture of anti-intellectualism was so thick that many of the kids I grew up with aspired to go to prison - just like Dad.... Using a word of more than 3 syllables might get you looked at funny by guys you hung out with.... While I know better now - it's really hard to see at 16 years old.

What I think they really need are mentors who aren't on TV... Or some veiws that do not measure success in some method that includes the NBA, or an easy money contract with a record label.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
I found that teachers and generally anyone who has a career in the education system don't really have a clue about how the real world works outside of the school system. Many teachers mistakenly believe that there's some coorelation between GPA and future success.
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And then in districts with poor scores, they will only hire teachers, with higher GPA's, The people that we trust to guide our children, are not smart eniough to underatand, that they need teachers, with medium grade point averages, that have a drive to teach our young ones, and not a teacher with a high GPA that is day dreaming every day od advancing to a higher non teaching position, rather then teaching our children at a level they can grasp.

Over paid, over staffed schools going no where, and we keep throwing hard earned money, at the problems.
 
Green Collar is just a buzz word made up by environmentalist to market environmentalism as something more than a moral issue, it?s a way to boost the economy and make more jobs. If you think about it, it?s a great strategy.

On the issue of schools, I cant even count the time I have gotten my soap box out for that topic?
 
On the issue of schools, I cant even count the time I have gotten my soap box out for that topic?
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Maybe it is time some trade organizations put together an effort to educate the school systems.

In our area if you get away from the beltway the (about 60 miles). Votech appears to be alive and operating quite well. It is near the city where folks seem to look down on our profession.
 
Why should it be up to the trade organizations alone?

You would think with as much power and money the labor organizations have (especially with the Democratic party) that they would be spearheading efforts to get vocational training in high schools, if for no other reason than to protect their best interests.

Maybe that is to controversial a statement, its not meant to push buttons but for real change to happen in the schools it will take some heavy hitters from the top down.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
I found that teachers and generally anyone who has a career in the education system don't really have a clue about how the real world works outside of the school system. Many teachers mistakenly believe that there's some coorelation between GPA and future success.
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That may be true of schools that only deal with "academic" I teach in a vo-tech school as well as being in business for myself. I know what it takes to be sucessful in the field. You are right though, most academic teachers and administrators have no clue what the real world is all about. We get one chance to do a job 100% correct. These people think it's ok to give students try and try again to do things 70% correct. It's sad. On the other hand it's job security............
 
roger3829 said:
That may be true of schools that only deal with "academic" I teach in a vo-tech school as well as being in business for myself. I know what it takes to be sucessful in the field. You are right though, most academic teachers and administrators have no clue what the real world is all about. We get one chance to do a job 100% correct. These people think it's ok to give students try and try again to do things 70% correct. It's sad. On the other hand it's job security............
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Well I was referring to public schools, and here, they're generally academic and subscribe to an auxiliary vo-tech system run by another entity.

First, I don't think ANY school is going to achieve 100% success. Face it, the world has disenfranchised people in it, always has and always will. I don't think a school or system with a higher concentration of those who are predisposed to that outcome can ever overcome the insurmountable challenge of convincing 100% of it's students that success is achievable.

Second, schools seem to focus on and base their effectiveness more on how many A.P. or college level classes it offers, and the degree of student participation. % of students going off to college is another measure of how "good" a school is, completely disregarding regional anomolies.

Success in school seems to be measured by a student's ability to memorize and parrot back on a test. This enables a scantron to grade a student's ability to memorize and carry a #2 pencil, but it doesn't reflect an individual's actual ability to think and apply what they know in a real world enviroment.
 
Just applying to be an apprentice is a red flag.

Just applying to be an apprentice is a red flag.

I wouldn't worry about this TV show influencing any potential new employees, construction is already considered the employer of last resort and the bottom rung of civilization. The average parent today would be mortified if their son expressed an interest in construction.

When I was 18, being a Journeyman Electrician was considered a pretty respectable gig, but the world has changed and now there is no job with lower prestige than construction tradesman.

There's only a few people that still respect a real tradesman and they're currently reading this post. The rest of society views us with contempt.

When someone walks into your office and wants to be an apprentice, the fact that he wants to do this work should disqualify him immediately. With so many better opportunities available to someone with brains and ambition, why would someone choose to be a construction worker? I can't remember the last time I walked onto a jobsite and didn't hear mariachi music...

I love this trade, I admire people who can do it well, but the golden age of craftsmanship is over. Back in the day, yeah, being an electrician was the cat's meow, but today, not so much.
 
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