A/A Fuel GTX
Senior Member
- Location
- WI & AZ
- Occupation
- Electrician
Would you heat up the anchor bolts and try to straighten them or break out the entire sonotube and start over?
What Would You Do?
- Thread starter A/A Fuel GTX
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Would you heat up the anchor bolts and try to straighten them or break out the entire sonotube and start over?When you heat steel to bend it, it changes the character of the steel. You loose most or all of its strength and springiness. The threading creates a fracture point that continues through the rod and the threaded rod is almost certain to break if you try to bend it back, with or without heat. Heating it to cherry red will damage the rated strength down to much less. Forging is a different process where the steel is heated and worked with hammering. Forged steel is very tough.
The new pole will have some type of manufacturer spec for support and that's what you will have to do, but it is the owner's decision about what actually gets done. Insurance job?
The new pole will have some type of manufacturer spec for support and that's what you will have to do, but it is the owner's decision about what actually gets done. Insurance job?
A/A Fuel GTX
Senior Member
- Location
- WI & AZ
- Occupation
- Electrician
It is the owners call on the insurance claim but I would go that route if I was him. I agree with your assessment on the heating but just wanted some back up. Looks like a very expensive fix.
junkhound
Senior Member
- Location
- Renton, WA
- Occupation
- EE, power electronics specialty
After a careful search of DIY sites, the overwhelming answer was:
JB weld <G>
Seriously, depends on what the original design specs were.
Possibly drilling >foot deep holes and grouting in 4 new rock bolts.
If you are in a tornado or hurricane area, may need new base.
JB weld <G>
Seriously, depends on what the original design specs were.
Possibly drilling >foot deep holes and grouting in 4 new rock bolts.
If you are in a tornado or hurricane area, may need new base.
A/A Fuel GTX
Senior Member
- Location
- WI & AZ
- Occupation
- Electrician
Perhaps a call to the pole manufacturer and a chat with their engineers would be the ticket. BTW, the pole is 25' tall.
junkhound
Senior Member
- Location
- Renton, WA
- Occupation
- EE, power electronics specialty
That's the ticket!
Likely the mfg. has a standard repair procedure, well engineered and tested with recommended parts and materials.
From the photos, they may also have replacement base components vs. a whole new pole?
mgookin
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Myers, FL
If it were my pole and I was paying out of my pocket, I'd cut the bent bolt off and weld a new bolt to it.
A/A Fuel GTX
Senior Member
- Location
- WI & AZ
- Occupation
- Electrician
Not a bad idea if you could find a certified welder that would sign off on it.
- Location
- Massachusetts
If it was my own property I would heat it and straighten it. Yes I fully understand heat treating etc. but these J-bolts will be nothing special, just basic untreated mild steel that can be heated and straightened easily.
However for a customer the only fix I would proceed with is one approved by the pole maker.
It might just end up to be cutting off all four and installing epoxy anchors, we have done this before following the pole makers specific institutions about anchor size, length and epoxy type.
However for a customer the only fix I would proceed with is one approved by the pole maker.
It might just end up to be cutting off all four and installing epoxy anchors, we have done this before following the pole makers specific institutions about anchor size, length and epoxy type.
masterinbama
Senior Member
- Location
- Huntsville Alabama
I would hammer it back upright.
mgookin
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Myers, FL
Looking again I'd say beat it back straight, cold. Go get a nice new sledge and let customer pay for it.
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
What kind of head is on the pole? Would it be possible to rotate the pole 45 degrees and reinstall new epoxied anchors?
mike7330
Senior Member
- Location
- North America
A/A Fuel GTX
Senior Member
- Location
- WI & AZ
- Occupation
- Electrician
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
ok... you are gonna have to have a new pole, as the flange is shattered....
the flange looks like aluminum tig welded to the pole. not a forged fitment.
it looks sand cast, and pole sits in a socket, with a bead around it.... if i had
to fix it, so it was safe, i'd get a piece of aluminum plate 12" square, bore
four 1" holes in it for anchors, and get a machine shop to bore a hole for
a slip fit for the pole, cut off above the existing weld.
slip it on, and tig it above the pole with a full weld, with four 1'' beads
spaced around the bottom. rotate the base 45 degrees relative to the
existing bolt pattern. drill 4 holes, and epoxy in some running thread
in the same size as the existing bolts.
so you have a 3" plate, with a hole bored in it, four bolt holes in the plate,
welded on the pole.
stand the pole back up, and away you go. double nut it and level it,
and dry pack it.
is it worth it? the machine shop i have stuff done at would probably
make me a plate like that for a couple hundred dollars. what's a new
pole and base cost? cause you are gonna have to replace both of them
otherwise....
is it safe? i'd be ok with the repair. it'd be stronger than the original,
and if we needed to test it, we could duct tape an attorney to a chair
right next to it, and hit it with a jeep...... :lol:
RichB
Senior Member
- Location
- Tacoma, Wa
- Occupation
- Electrician/Electrical Inspector
ok--
1. You need a new pole as the flange is broken--no way around that--it will be cheaper than any "fix"
2. You could try and bend them back upright
A. We have done that using both a sledge and a pipe that fits over the nuts
B. we have also heated them and welded new extensions on when they broke
3.you could cut them flush--chip out the concrete till you get down around half the bolt length then cut off and use a rod coupler to install new bolts--the drill out 4 new holes epoxy in some rebar and re-pour the foundation
4. Just pour a new base
Depending on what you wish to accept for liability any of the above will work--personally I would go with a new foundation if possible.
1. You need a new pole as the flange is broken--no way around that--it will be cheaper than any "fix"
2. You could try and bend them back upright
A. We have done that using both a sledge and a pipe that fits over the nuts
B. we have also heated them and welded new extensions on when they broke
3.you could cut them flush--chip out the concrete till you get down around half the bolt length then cut off and use a rod coupler to install new bolts--the drill out 4 new holes epoxy in some rebar and re-pour the foundation
4. Just pour a new base
Depending on what you wish to accept for liability any of the above will work--personally I would go with a new foundation if possible.
Keep in mind the times
Keep in mind the times
Kinda depends on the area the pole sits in, Were it my own I would beat the bolt back (cold). If it sits in the parking lot of a Doctors office and was going to have $50k cars (and owners with lawyers) parked under it, I would do what it takes to have a installation equal to original; no rigging what-so-ever.
This would appear to be something an insurance company will be footing the bill for, should you save the ins. co. a ton of money they will be happy. They will also be happy to deny a future claim on the same pole- "due to your shoddy repair".
Do the thread on the j bolts continue down into the concrete? Perhaps chip out the concrete and use a GRADED coupler nut. As to the base, That would be the call for a professional welding shop to evaluate the strength of any repair, if you can't get something in writing for your files. Play it safe and replace. You are there to install and wire the thing not to save someone a fortune by being the one at risk for saving them money.
Keep in mind the times
Kinda depends on the area the pole sits in, Were it my own I would beat the bolt back (cold). If it sits in the parking lot of a Doctors office and was going to have $50k cars (and owners with lawyers) parked under it, I would do what it takes to have a installation equal to original; no rigging what-so-ever.
This would appear to be something an insurance company will be footing the bill for, should you save the ins. co. a ton of money they will be happy. They will also be happy to deny a future claim on the same pole- "due to your shoddy repair".
Do the thread on the j bolts continue down into the concrete? Perhaps chip out the concrete and use a GRADED coupler nut. As to the base, That would be the call for a professional welding shop to evaluate the strength of any repair, if you can't get something in writing for your files. Play it safe and replace. You are there to install and wire the thing not to save someone a fortune by being the one at risk for saving them money.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
We (city) see this type of damage many times a year. We chip the concrete out, and have a certified welder weld up bolts that have the head cut off to the stubs in the slap. When done, spray cold galv on the repairs, form up and pour concrete or grout. This is the same method our DOT uses and they have done this frequently and meets their strict standards.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
OK and I want to add, depending on how large the pole slug is it may be easier to replace. Now if the pole slug was physically moved when it was hit, then it would have to be replaced. That is seldom the case, as normally the pole is sheared off at the base. I have seen the poles thrown 100ft from the base.
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