Whats included?

[bbe]

I know most here don't do this but if you are wiring spec houses to code what do you include with this? Like phones, cable, dedicated micro, stuff like that do you have a list of what you include before the change orders start?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I know most here don't do this but if you are wiring spec houses to code what do you include with this? Like phones, cable, dedicated micro, stuff like that do you have a list of what you include before the change orders start?

Do you not have a set of plans?

 

[Minuteman]

bbe, are these bid by the sq ft, or by the opening?

 

[bbe]

Yes by the sq ft bare minimum code. i know its not the best way to bid jobs but here in nc its the norm.. Some i figure the openings an total it up an then divide the sq ft to get teh price but still its by the sq ft.

 

[Minuteman]

Since you are painted into that corner, the only thing you could do is spell out before the contract that you will bill extra for those things, since they are not "code minimum". However, now you have to educate a GC/Builder as to what IS required by code, and what is not.

 

[Bill Ruffner]

I know most here don't do this but if you are wiring spec houses to code what do you include with this? Like phones, cable, dedicated micro, stuff like that do you have a list of what you include before the change orders start?

If you're not sure if your customer wants anything over and above the minimum code requirements, you might want to just bid the job to meet the minimum code.

Then you can include a list of standard option prices (Dimmers, cans, fans, intercoms, etc.) with your bid pack. Include verbiage in your formal proposal that if anything is added to the home after the fact, you will simply use the standard option pricing.

Your prices in the standard option price list will include much higher margins. For example: If your cost, including overhead and profit, for a receptacle is $35 in your base bid and you have a price of $55 on your standard option price list, you've just increased the margins on the receptacle by 57%. You can get away with this because individually, the prices on the option list don't seem extreme. But they do add up to substantially increased margins.

Some people bid aggressively in order to get the job. Then they try to up sell the builder and use the standard option pricing to increase their profit margins.

 

[bbe]

I like the idea of the option sheet, usually when they add stuff I will just tell the price to add but I like that idea. The original question was what do others here include in a minimum code house. I wire a good many houses that start out as bare bones an then the change orders start.. When they say bid it code thats just what I do. Just wondering what if any stuff you also put in a code house. Like when wiring one to code do you let that include 1 fan or 2 phones? Stuff like that.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I like the idea of the option sheet, usually when they add stuff I will just tell the price to add but I like that idea. The original question was what do others here include in a minimum code house. I wire a good many houses that start out as bare bones an then the change orders start.. When they say bid it code thats just what I do. Just wondering what if any stuff you also put in a code house. Like when wiring one to code do you let that include 1 fan or 2 phones? Stuff like that.

I don't bid the code minimum in fact I rarely bid at all. If I were to I would not include any fans since they are not code minimum. I would install one phone jack as I believe that may now be required. One light per room or possibly one switched recep. to code depending on what they want. No doorbell no internet just the bare minimum. If they want more than offer a price extra option for each item.

 

[Bill Ruffner]

The original question was what do others here include in a minimum code house.QUOTE]

I don't mean to sound simplistic but they bid the minimum code.

No offense, and maybe I'm reading this wrong, but if you're unsure of what the minimum code requirements are for a dwelling, then maybe you're not ready to be bidding on wiring new houses.

I'm a big believer in making sure that you know what the local inspector is going to require before you estimate a house. That's why I've included a code questionnaire in our program. Every inspector has their own unique requirements that are over and above the NEC. If I'm not sure of the inspectors requirements, I'll call him on the phone and go through the code questions with him. I've never had an inspector have a problem with this. Just the opposite. They have appreciated the fact that I am concerned about doing the job to meet their requirements.

I could try to list the minimum requirements for you but you really should speak with the inspector. Take a look at our list if you need to get an idea of what questions you might want to ask.

 

[MagnoliaElec]

BBe where in NC are you? When you give out your Sq ft price on a spec, spell out exactly what you intend to include. I would spec outlets on a code min basis. The number of A/Cs you intend to cover, size of their circuits, no cans, no fans, no floods, no hood I don't include any low voltage in my price. Get it in the contract, beat them over the head with it. Do you have a print that is layed out with locations and equipment, or is it just walls?

 

[bbe]

Most times there is no print. The question was not to find out what is required but what others include in a bare bones install... Talkin to another sparky here an he said he always includes 2 phones an 2 cables its not required so I thought I would see what everybody else does.... Me on a code house youre getting recepts spaced to code, 2 small appliance, 1 light per room, 3 ways just on stairs , light at entrances , everything 15A but whats required, no dedicated ckts, no floods, no hood, no low voltage, no doorbell, only appliances are the water heater, stove, and of course the well pump an heat/a/c . So was just basically wanted to know if more did like me or did alittle more? Thanks

 

[Teaspoon]

I know most here don't do this but if you are wiring spec houses to code what do you include with this? Like phones, cable, dedicated micro, stuff like that do you have a list of what you include before the change orders start?

When I bid a spec house,no prints available.
I like to walk thru the house with the GC. I ask him questions on each room.
Example Bd Rm Rec. Code compliant? Ceiling fan Do you want fan&Light switched seperately? or Together? Are we going to put a light in the closet?
Is there any other lighting in this room? Do you want a phone Jack?

As we are going thru the house.Me asking questions. I have My sharpie in hand. I am Marking all this information on the stud walls.Then when I go back to do the job ,My print is there.
Then I have a good idea what is wanted in order ,to figure my bid.

 

[GUNNING]

Fine print.

Fine print.

Id kill the GC with vagaries. Like 2 kitchen CRTs, one bedroom CRT. not mentioning phone or CATV cause they are not code required. Minimums only. Everything else extras. Max size heat/ ac circuit. Max number bedroom circuits. Maximum number lighting circuits. Assumption all appliances are gas. Maximum size service is 100 amp ( 60 if ya want to be mean). Put it in really small print. Let him guess what he is buying just like he is having you guess what you will supply. All bedroom switches are single pole switches. All fixtures are bent glass or key-less or no fixtures are installed just blanked up. All extras billed at double or triple piece rate. No restoration of surfaces for upgrades. Tamper proof outlets extra. AFCI's extra. And the ol agree to use no other electrical contractor for any project within 200 miles of this one or double liquidated damages. Tie him up. You get the gist. Really small print. Have him sign the estimate/proposal when you hand it to him. He will only see the bottom line not the fine print. Greed works but not in the dark.

 

[Minuteman]

When I bid a spec house,no prints available.
I like to walk thru the house with the GC. I ask him questions on each room.
Example Bd Rm Rec. Code compliant? Ceiling fan Do you want fan&Light switched seperately? or Together? Are we going to put a light in the closet?
Is there any other lighting in this room? Do you want a phone Jack?

As we are going thru the house.Me asking questions. I have My sharpie in hand. I am Marking all this information on the stud walls.Then when I go back to do the job ,My print is there.
Then I have a good idea what is wanted in order ,to figure my bid.

That works just great for a repeat GC/Builder, it's a little different bidding a to a new one. I spell out every thing in the contract, and hope he compares apples to apples.

 

[wbalsam1]

........................... Maximum size service is 100 amp ( 60 if ya want to be mean). ...........................AFCI's extra. .................

To be code compliant, a service for a 1 family dwelling must be a minimum of 100 amperes. See 230.79(C). Also, depending on what edition of the NEC is being enforced, see 210.12 for AFCI requirements.

 

[480sparky]

To be code compliant, a service for a 1 family dwelling must be a minimum of 100 amperes. See 230.79(C). Also, depending on what edition of the NEC is being enforced, see 210.12 for AFCI requirements.

If memory serves, you also need to supply at least one phone jack. Don't ask me the code reference, though.

 

[wbalsam1]

If memory serves, you also need to supply at least one phone jack. Don't ask me the code reference, though.

I doubt this very much. Nothing specific in Article 800. I can't imagine this being an NEC rule...gotta be something local.....:-?:smile:

 

[480sparky]

I doubt this very much. Nothing specific in Article 800. I can't imagine this being an NEC rule...gotta be something local.....:-?:smile:

It was NEC. Someone posted it here one time, and I had to look it up. When I saw it, I said, "Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle."





Well, not really, but what I said to myself can't be repeated here.

 

[wbalsam1]

It was NEC. Someone posted it here one time, and I had to look it up. When I saw it, I said, "Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle."





Well, not really, but what I said to myself can't be repeated here.

Well...it shouldn't be long now...and somebody'll prove me just a babe in the woods. I've had so many lefts on this forum, sometimes I just beg for a right. But I can only fall on my face when I'm pointing forward. :smile:
I just can't imagine being commanded to install a telephone by law. The telemarketers sure have a powerful lobby heh?

 

[360Youth]

It has been a long time since I did a spec house but I do include certain things in any house I do because I think it is right. My price will reflect it and would probably (most assuredly) be higher than the bare minimum outfit. Fans in the BRMs and living room. Bathrooms don't have their own gfi circuit, but each one will have it's own gfi. Convenience 3-ways. Nothing major, but enough to make a difference, and things I would want in my own home.