What's the 2017 NEC minimum branch circuit supply to a detached garage?

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peter d said:
I will defy this code rule in a heartbeat. There is no way I'm running a second circuit to a detached garage to power a porcelain or a few strip lights.
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I really don't understand this.

Charge the customer for the work to comply with the code and make money doing your job.
 
iwire said:
I really don't understand this.

Charge the customer for the work to comply with the code and make money doing your job.
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These defiant undertones usually emerge in old work, in situations where complying with new codes that defy 90.1 are onerous.

(Around here, when I tell the story about the "is a switch an outlet" thread, they are usually dumbfounded that an inspector would be looking at an added coach light and switch in an old house, and could expect AFCI on it or red tag it.)
 
George Stolz said:
These defiant undertones usually emerge in old work, in situations where complying with new codes that defy 90.1 are onerous.
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Wow, a fancy spin on stubbornness. :D

We can disagree with code requirements and I am no fan of say AFCIs but if I am job that requires them they will go in.
 
George Stolz said:
An old house needs a tune up of devices. What do you do?
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Around here, the homeowner, or some other handy person, does the first tune up. Especially if the house is being flipped. As a result, simple mistakes are made, especially the absence of an EGC in grounding-type receptacles.

Either the buyer's home inspector, or even the Truth-In-Sale inspector will call it out in the middle of the listing of the property, which will mandate electrical permit and inspection. I get the call at this point in the sale process, so, it is a no-brainer. . . all of the appropriate parts of 406.4(D) get invoked.
 
George Stolz said:
Why bother with the pricing exercise on a losing bid? Why not reject the job outright?

60 x .89 = $53.40 = winner
60 x $30 = $1,800.00 = not only lost, vilified
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To be fair, I think you're talking about two different kinds of jobs and trying to equate them.

The first is where you can hide the truck (with its signage) and not do the work to Code.

The second is where the property owner has to show others that they have had the electrical work done under electrical permit and that an electrical inspection has occurred and passed. (In my area this is generally tied to rental license or fire marshal inspections, as well as within the "listing-to-closing" time window of the sale of a property.
 
al hildenbrand said:
Taking advantage of PV_n00b's thread and link, in 2017 NEC Posted I've spent a little time reading.

2017 NEC 210.11(C)(4) is marked as "new".


As I'm understanding this, garage lighting can't be part of the outlets on the 20-ampere 120-volt branch circuit, therefore the minimum supply to the detached garage has to be a three-wire with EGC multiwire branch circuit.

What say you?
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For a detached garage, since I would have to go through the trouble of digging a trench, burying PVC, then running conductors through it, I never run anything less than a 40A 240V subfeed. I run a total of 7 conductors as follows: two #8 black, one #8 white, #10 green, two #14 red, one #14 black. The #14's are for 3-way operation of the outdoor lights inside the house as well as inside the garage. The #8's provide the 40A service to the garage. I install a 6-circuit subpanel inside the garage, then run all the branch circuits off that.
 
jeff48356 said:
For a detached garage, since I would have to go through the trouble of digging a trench, burying PVC, then running conductors through it, I never run anything less than a 40A 240V subfeed. I run a total of 7 conductors as follows: two #8 black, one #8 white, #10 green, two #14 red, one #14 black. The #14's are for 3-way operation of the outdoor lights inside the house as well as inside the garage. The #8's provide the 40A service to the garage. I install a 6-circuit subpanel inside the garage, then run all the branch circuits off that.
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A 40 amp feeder for a detached garage? :huh:
 
Suppose one has a refrigerator , overhead door and of course lighting outlets and receptacles. Now the garage door opener may have to be on a separate circuit from the receptacles since a refrigerator and other outlets are involved. 210.23 (A)(2)

Now you may need 3 circuits so a panel is needed out at the detached garage
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Suppose one has a refrigerator , overhead door and of course lighting outlets and receptacles. Now the garage door opener may have to be on a separate circuit from the receptacles since a refrigerator and other outlets are involved. 210.23 (A)(2)

Now you may need 3 circuits so a panel is needed out at the detached garage
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There is usually not a refrigerator at the time of inspection just lights, recpts, and door opener. There won't be a real world problem once the people move in and put a fridge in the garage.
 
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