what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

[ronson]

inspector showed today. he said i would have to swap out GE "slimline" breakers. he said city didn't allow me to use "slimlines" because i might max out panel & use all 40 spaces. just looked up in my 99 nec, sec 384-15 & it allows max of 42 spaces. end of cardboard box that panelbox came in from GE says 40 spaces for 1/2" breakers or 20 spaces for 1" breakers. could there have been a bonafide problem with these "slimline" breakers catching fire, etc. in the past?

[ March 06, 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: ronson ]

 

[charlie b]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

If the box is listed (a high probability), then the Inspector cannot use the NEC as the reason for rejecting this configuration. You said that he said that ?the city didn't allow?.? You might ask the Inspector what city code section he is using to fail your installation.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

Request that you and the inspector go to the city recorder's office and he show you the exact city LEGALLY ADOPTED amendment to the code. If the city recorder cannot give you the information it is not a law.

As a citizen of the United States, you are entitled to know what the law of the land is. If they cannot produce to you the law and insist on enforcing it anyway, they have broken the US constitution.

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

i'll go downtown next week & have inspection dept show this to me in writing. until then, has anyone ever heard of these "slimline" breakers burning up, etc.?

 

[curt swartz]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

I don?t see how an inspector can legally prevent you from using these THQP breakers. They will only fit positions in the load centers designed for them. This is no different than the inspector saying they will not accept Ideal wire nuts.

 

[hurk27]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

Ronson take the box end with you to show that it is UL listed for these breakers. as far as them burning up as I said before I have had to replace many of the 20 and 30 amp ones as the contact between the breaker and buss is very small. But is was mostly when this type of panel was installed in a laundry room or a damp basement.

 

[dave81]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

I would say be careful how you try to tell the AHJ that he may be mistaken, afterall your probably going to have to work with him in the future.Do you have to use slimlines? If you use just one slimline and fill the rest of the panel up with 1" breakers arn't you overfilled?

 

[hurk27]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

Dave This panel is UL listed for 40 1/2 space breakers or 20 1" breakers. This is the way this panel come in a kit with the 1/2" breakers in the box with the panel. It design this way and is allowed.

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

dave, thanks for concern. i will tread lightly with inspector. may call & ask for one of girls to fax me a copy of city code showing why they dislike slimlines so much. wish me luck.

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

went out & looked at this panel today. put panel cover on for first time & realized GE did something i consider squirrelly. there is no way i can place my 2 pole breakers at the top as i normally do with cutler hammer & sq d. appears buss bar is set up to start only with 1 pole breakers. am i flipping out or what?

 

[macmikeman]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

I have seen where thqp slimline GE breakers could not handle the breakers rated load at 80 per cent of load. I had installed a dedicated air con 120 volt short run once onto an existing GE subpanel and had to install the first set of slimlines into the panel to make space. The run was short, the load was 12 amps and the breaker(20 amp, #12 ga wire) would overheat and trip. Switched out the slimline with another and same thing. Ended up switching around loads so my new circuit was on a 1" breaker. End of problem.

 

[bill addiss]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

appears buss bar is set up to start only with 1 pole breakers. am i flipping out or what?

ronson,

If you're still talking about the 1/2in. breakers that's correct, you're not flippin out. You have to start with a single pole because the first two stabs are on the same 'leg'

Bill

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

macmikeman, this is what i was afraid of. who else has had problems with these breakers? i'm afraid i'm going to have to rip this panel out! if i have to go to 1" breakers, i won't have enough spaces.

 

[curt swartz]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

Ronson,

I wouldn?t worry about having problems. I haven?t used any GE equipment lately but at one time it was the primary line I used. I haven?t had one problem with the 1000's of THQP breakers I have installed. I can?t say that about any other manufactures I have used. If you really want to avoid problems don?t use load centers since they are all pretty cheaply made. Panelboards with bolt-in breakers are a much better choice but don?t fit the budget of most residential jobs.

I agree with Bill about the 2-pole breaker issue.

 

[caosesvida]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

I have found that the problem is heat buildup with the slimline, or any 1/2 space breaker. Sometimes even if it if full size breaker with a sq.D panel. Over time the heat degrades the system. I am talking about a fully loaded system, usually commercial,where the 12 cir panel if filled and all 20 amp breakers are on a/c's or something. Over the summer there is not enough heat loss from the panel and the spring clips loose the tension and then arching starts. In residential just think about the heat and the load when using 1/2 size breakers.

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

perhaps these overheating issues occur only when the panel is full? would i be ok as long as i don't completely fill panel? that sounds like what the inspector was talking about last week. i just don't recall him saying anything about overheating.

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

well i just heard back from city. the inspector i talked to is off today but another will fax the addendum to city code regarding their outlawing slimlines, piggybacks, & aluminum wiring (except for services & feeders). he couldn't tell me why they outlaw slimlines. hope copy of addendum will.

 

[curt swartz]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

Ronson,

You should talk to GE and an attorney about this. These are UL listed breakers designed for this load center. The only person that has a right to reject these breakers is the property owner. If the addendum the inspector sends you say they prohibit slim or piggy back breakers you are covered. These breakers are UL listed THQP breakers not slim breakers. If you can please post the addendum here.

 

[bthielen]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

As a citizen of the United States, you are entitled to know what the law of the land is. If they cannot produce to you the law and insist on enforcing it anyway, they have broken the US constitution.

Ryan,

Are you sure you are 100% correct? I agree that we citizens are "entitled" to know the law but how are you defining "entitled"? I have understood that we are entitled but it is our responsibility to educate ourselves to the law. In other words, to coin a phrase, "ignorance is no defense."

will tread lightly with inspector

Why do I seem to sense a certain animosity toward inspectors? Aren't they just doing their job, just as anyone else? If they do their job as hired, they should find fault in what we do on occasion. The fact that this forum exists attests to the complexity of the code and what is deemed safe practice. Of course, the inspectors are only human and mistakes, misinterpretations, and disagreements will arise. We may disagree with the interpretation of the code or we may even disagree with the code itself. There is no need to pussyfoot around an inspector if we treat each other with proper respect, courtesy, and professionalism. All we have to do is the best of our ability and learn from our errors, and that goes both ways.

Bob

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

bob, one problem i have with SOME inspectors is that they act like ALOT of doctors & lawyers do, they think they are God. there are also SOME that don't know what they are talking about but still act like they do. it looks like they are on some kind of power trip. courtesy, respect, & professionalism are what i see missing in SOME inspectors & the lack thereof should not be tolerated by city hall but it is. when these inspectors with the "bad" attitudes show up, i want to avoid them like they were a skunk. there are SOME inspectors that are great to work with & thank god they are because if i had only the "bad" ones to work with, i would find some other line of work.

[ March 08, 2004, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: ronson ]