what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

[ryan_618]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

Originally posted by bthielen:
Ryan,

Are you sure you are 100% correct? I agree that we citizens are "entitled" to know the law but how are you defining "entitled"? I have understood that we are entitled but it is our responsibility to educate ourselves to the law. In other words, to coin a phrase, "ignorance is no defense."

Bob

Hi Bob. No , I'm not 100%, but I'm about 90%.

I agree that ignorance is not a defense, that is, you can't justify your actions simply because you didn't know you were breaking the law.

If you are caught breaking the law, you have the right to see, on paper and in a legally adopted document, the law that you have broken.

What I was trying to get at in my original post is that if indeed this code amendment has been adopted, you cannot break it, but you can demand to see it in writing. Does that make any sense?

 

[chicar]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

In E.Cleveland,Ohio they have a "Rule 6". When you pull a permit you recieve a letter stating what they want and expect to be done. Because the N.E.C book is the minimum code,E. Cleveland add their list. You get this in writing,no suprises.

 

[hurk27]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

In Indiana before a law can be adopted, or put into effect it has to be published in a public place or newspaper. And as I read other state laws seem to have this same requirment and is the same in most places. so I do think that they must have to have a way we can look up laws so we don't have to be ignorant of the law. if it's not published anywhere then how can they expect us to know it. and I have seen this more than once. I have seen more than once where an inspector would bring me a paper say this is the code with the ink still wet.

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

curt, what does a real slimline breaker look like? could my city confuse THQP breakers with slimlines? wayne, what irritates me is that the city didn't tell me about their addendum outlawing piggybacks, slimlines, & alum wire. why couldn't they have given me a booklet, e.g., when they issued my masters license? bob, this is the kind of BS that makes me hate some inspectors. why can't they tell you ahead of time what is outlawed?

 

[curt swartz]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

Ronson

I have never seen a breaker with the name slimline or piggyback?..these are slang terms. Show your inspector a breaker and have him find either of those names on it. If they provide a letter saying that slimline or piggyback breakers are not permitted I would guess the inspectors typed it up themselves and it is not a legally adopted amendment. The city, county or state attorney is not going to use these slang terms. I could say that standard full size THQL breakers are slimlines compared to many other breakers.

Have you tried contacting the head building official/electrical inspector about this or have you just been talking with the field inspectors? Did they send you a copy of the addendum? If so I would like to see it. If you don?t want to post it on this forum email me a copy or I can send you my fax number.

 

[pierre]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

As much as we may not like it, it is our responsibility to know the law/codes. If you are working in a jurisdiction that is new to you or you are not sure of the requirements, that is the time to request a copy of the local amendments. Not after you have been cited. In New York State, the amendments to the state code (of which there are no approved electrical variances approved as of this date), have to be in writing and available upon request - of which a reasonable cost can be attached upon request.

Pierre

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

curt & pierre, i have tried to respond to you both two times. both my postings are not up on screen. is it me, my computer, or mike holt's bugaboo?

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

well lets see if i can get this post on board this morning. curt, the addendum calls them "thinline" breakers. as soon as my wife shows me how, i'll try to post the addendum. the head inspector is the last person i want to talk to about this. he is a jerk. he just inherited the job recently due to his having tenure over other field inspectors. he was probably a plumber if he did any work at all. girls in office help me by helping me avoid him. i don't think too many people like him. its a sad situation. you never get a straight answer from him & he tries to make you feel stupid for asking any questions.

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

pierre, do you mean NY has no variances (addendums?) from NEC or electrical contractors are allowed no variances from code & local addendums? before i began this job i did ask the field inspector who came out what i needed to know in order to do this job right. he told me a couple of things but he never mentioned outlawed slimlines, piggybacks, or alum wire. a professionally run inspection dept should issue you a booklet or whatever when you get your master license that outlines what city requires. this is just another example of how govt operates. it reminds me of IRS. they don't tell you anymore than they have to. its really a shame.

 

[ccha9219]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

Originally posted by ronson:
i'll go downtown next week & have inspection dept show this to me in writing. until then, has anyone ever heard of these "slimline" breakers burning up, etc.?

the only slim line breakers I know of the burn up are the old FPE, or no-blows as we call them. I have never heard of an ispector turning down a rated devise...If your panel is a 20/40 than the only way to get 42 circuits in it is to use tandems. If the box is listed as 20 1' "spaces" or 40 1/2" "spaces" not "circuits"
do your load calcs to make sure you dont excced your bus bar/ main ocpd rating

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

to do my load calc's, do i just need to add up amps of my breakers & compare that to my panel being rated at 200 amps?

 

[ccha9219]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

the general method we used is
3 va x sq ft for lights and gen use recpt
small app. and laundry 3x1500
add these two use 1st 300va @ 100% the rest @ 35%
compare heat to a/c omit the smaller
fastened in place app 75%
5kw min for dryer..
thats all I can remember
see 220-3 in the 99
hope it helps
craig

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

craig, thanks, i'll try to calculate up all these #'s & see how total compares to panel.

 

[ccha9219]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

the first 3000 va @100 %

 

[pierre]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

Ronson
If you are in NYS, there are no NYS approved variances to the state code for any municipality, as of this date (even if they produce a document). If you are in NYS, private message me and I will help you address this, quickly. If you are in a different jurisdiction, that could be a different matter.
Good Luck

Pierre

 

[ccha9219]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

I have seen overheating problems when large loads are opposite each other ( heat/AC, range ect.) That's why I put all large loads on one side of the panel. Do the same with quads and tandems and you shouldn't have a problem.
You have a rated breaker in a panel that is enginered for that breaker all the talk in the world won't change that... As for the insector
if he can't show you in writing that it is not allowed by law,ordinance or amendment to the code
stick to your guns He's not a god......
just a public saftey offical

 

[ccha9219]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

pardon the bad typing it's the sexatary's day off

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

pierre, so you are trying to tell me that NYS does not vary from NEC?

craig, i had been taught to try to balance out loads in panel by placing, in descending order of amperage, half my breakers on one side & the other half on the other side. that way the load is split between the phases. is this not right?

 

[iwire]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

Originally posted by ronson:
i had been taught to try to balance out loads in panel by placing, in descending order of amperage, half my breakers on one side & the other half on the other side. that way the load is split between the phases. is this not right?

Well it is not wrong, but it is also not necessary.

You can put the breakers in any order or position you want and still achieve balance.

Just do not put all the breakers in on the same phase.

21 circuits in a 42 circuit panel, put them all on one side and the panel can still be electrically balanced.

The only true way to balance a panel is to take amperage readings, using the breaker ratings means little in balancing.

 

[ronson]

Re: what's wrong with GE "slimline" breakers?

bob, you appear to have contradicted yourself when in one sentence you say not to put all the breakers on one side & then in next sentence you say one can place all breakers on same side & still be electrically balanced. please elaborate.