When exactly to pull PERMITS??

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threephase

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I realize this is subjective and the answer will vary on county/state in question but do you guys have any 'rules of thumb' when the need arises to pull a permit?

When involved with a GC?

When dealing with the main enclosure/ service?

When homeowner insists?

I realize most won't for service calls and recep changeouts but at what point do you feel the need for a permit?

If caught not pulling a permit, what's usually the penalty? A small fine?

Thanks.
 
Repairs don't normally need to be permitted but if it is a large repair then yes pull a permit.Panel change yes. If the GC has a permit on the job it will change city to city as to the need of each trade to pull an additional permit or be added to the main permit. In my home town if the GC has a permit I don't need to worry about it but a few miles away the GC will pull a building permit and my permit will be the same number as his with a "E" prefix for electrical. I have a friend that got a major fine from the state for not pulling permits on every job" big $$$ "
 
It depends entirely on what your locality requires. In my area they don't care much one way or the other about minor repairs, but anything that might add value to the house will increase your taxes, and they do care about that.
 
petersonra said:
It depends entirely on what your locality requires.
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Right... my state doesn't have statewide rules, so it's a town by town thing. One town, I can add up to 2 circuits without a permit or do repair work, everything else needs permit. Another town, no permit needed except for service equipment. One town, permit for everything, including repairs, but the permit can be gotten after the work is done. On a statewide basis, anytime a building permit is issued for building work, I need an electrical permit for electrical work, no matter how little or how much work I'm doing. Just check with whatever jurisdictions you'll be working in. There's nothing standard on it.
 
So I would have to believe that if installing a manual transfer switch for a mobile generator in which 6 circuits are transferred, a permit would be neccessary.
 
threephase said:
So I would have to believe that if installing a manual transfer switch for a mobile generator in which 6 circuits are transferred, a permit would be neccessary.
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I would agree. Around here permits are required for just about everything. I would say that on small jobs compliance is very low. Some contractors hate paying for permits and then have the inspector do a "drive by" inspection for small work.
 
threephase said:
So I would have to believe that if installing a manual transfer switch for a mobile generator in which 6 circuits are transferred, a permit would be neccessary.
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Most likely you should already have a permit.If your a licensed contractor just go pull the permit now.If not then you could be in a bind.Will or will you be cutting the meter seal ?
 
I don't need to pull a permit for repairs. But if you are adding one outlet to a garage circuit you do. Also don't get caught starting the job without the permit being on site.
 
Nobody get excited. I haven't done anything nor plan to in the coming weeks.

I'm just looking for very general feedback and for those that have obliged, it's appreciated.
 
Here in MA we get a 5 day period after the start of the job to pull a permit.

When I go into RI I have to remember it's permit first, than work.
 
The best idea is to check with the jurisdiction first, so you know the answer.. some homeowners will not want a permit pulled (and that's when you should walk away)... imho, of course
 
permits

permits

Never could understand for a permit fee (in our town its a min. of $35.00) would you want to put your lic. and your livelyhood at risk. It takesa great amount of time and sweat to get your ticket, to lose it or put your family's future at risk for peanuts. the permit fee is goiung to be part of your cost that is charged to the customer.
 
lowryder88h said:
Never could understand for a permit fee (in our town its a min. of $35.00) would you want to put your lic. and your livelyhood at risk. It takesa great amount of time and sweat to get your ticket, to lose it or put your family's future at risk for peanuts. the permit fee is goiung to be part of your cost that is charged to the customer.
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Not only do I agree but, it is in the HO best interests to have the permit pulled. When selling the home, now there is a paper trail to work done,, and done according to the rules.

Why would you not pull one?
 
When exactly to pull PERMITS??

threephase said:
I realize this is subjective and the answer will vary on county/state in question but do you guys have any 'rules of thumb' when the need arises to pull a permit?

When involved with a GC?

When dealing with the main enclosure/ service?

When homeowner insists?

I realize most won't for service calls and recep changeouts but at what point do you feel the need for a permit?

If caught not pulling a permit, what's usually the penalty? A small fine?

Thanks.
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Im Masscchusetts (MGL )
No person shall intall for hire any wiring or fixtures without or within five days after commencing with the work file for a permit etc.

I guess that means a permit is required for all electrical work. The fine is not to exceed $500.00
 
Not saying permits are a bad idea but look at the real cost.First you as an EC need to fill out the papers and pick up the permit.The real cost is not the $35 fee it is 35 plus your hourly rate.This easily is $100 or more.Now look at customers side of this.Permit made job cost more to start with.Now add in a day of lost work to let inspector in.If it fails for any reason it is now one more day for electrician and another for reinspect.It also raises taxes and that over many years can add up.Also at risk is any other unpermited work they did in past even if not electrical.And in many cases the inspector will barely even look.I have had some for minor remodels not even get out of there car.
OK go ahead and fire back
 
JW in Tampa said:
The real cost is not the $35 fee it is 35 plus your hourly rate.
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I always include the following note in any of my proposals :

*** Permit fees, filing and being present for inspection ARE NOT included in this estimate/proposal.

If you want to save a few $$$ I'll be happy to seal the permit (after I have a signed contract) and you can go down to the town hall and file it yourself.

Also at risk is any other unpermited work they did in past even if not electrical.
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As far as I'm concerned, if an inspector fails a job based on previous work done by someone else, it is he (not you or me) who is in violation. He cannot hold up passing you for the work you've done if there was other work done (with or without a permit), or work done that was in violation of the NEC or building code(s) by another contractor (licensed or not). However, if he wants to cite a homeowner or property owner with a violation that would require getting extra compensation to correct, I am in agreement with that.
 
When exactly to pull Permits??

When exactly to pull Permits??

Jim W in Tampa said:
Not saying permits are a bad idea but look at the real cost.First you as an EC need to fill out the papers and pick up the permit.The real cost is not the $35 fee it is 35 plus your hourly rate.This easily is $100 or more.Now look at customers side of this.Permit made job cost more to start with.Now add in a day of lost work to let inspector in.If it fails for any reason it is now one more day for electrician and another for reinspect.It also raises taxes and that over many years can add up.Also at risk is any other unpermited work they did in past even if not electrical.And in many cases the inspector will barely even look.I have had some for minor remodels not even get out of there car.
OK go ahead and fire back
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I will be glad to fire back. First I wish the inspector was paid that much money for his time.

Next I find that some get the job done in a hurry and get paid and get out kind of electricians ,will do some really poor work knowing that it will not be inspected.

Also there is no reason for the inspection to fail on the small job,and if it does then the installer should pay the panalty.

If you are doing work in the towns I work at you can be sure I will give it a good look. I have inspected receptacle replacements that failed because a 3 wire receptacle replaced a 2 wire one without a ground present. I really think the installer didn't think I would check.

Finally There is no such thing as monetary hardship when it comes to public safety.The home owner should be glad to pay the added expense of a permit fee ,to be sure that the person that he paid to do the work is as dedicated to doing code compliant work as those in this forum.

The truth is inspectors see work done by electricians that don't seem to have a clue or a care about the work they are doing. I as an inspector get great satisfaction by stopping them, in the interest of protecting the consumer. I also get a lot of pleasure from working with and doing all i can to help the good guys to get the job done in a smooth and profitable fashion.

Enough said.
 
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