When exactly to pull PERMITS??

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romeo said:
I will be glad to fire back. First I wish the inspector was paid that much money for his time.

Next I find that some get the job done in a hurry and get paid and get out kind of electricians ,will do some really poor work knowing that it will not be inspected.

Also there is no reason for the inspection to fail on the small job,and if it does then the installer should pay the panalty.

If you are doing work in the towns I work at you can be sure I will give it a good look. I have inspected receptacle replacements that failed because a 3 wire receptacle replaced a 2 wire one without a ground present. I really think the installer didn't think I would check.

Finally There is no such thing as monetary hardship when it comes to public safety.The home owner should be glad to pay the added expense of a permit fee ,to be sure that the person that he paid to do the work is as dedicated to doing code compliant work as those in this forum.

The truth is inspectors see work done by electricians that don't seem to have a clue or a care about the work they are doing. I as an inspector get great satisfaction by stopping them, in the interest of protecting the consumer. I also get a lot of pleasure from working with and doing all i can to help the good guys to get the job done in a smooth and profitable fashion.

Enough said.
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I agree that inspectors don't get paid enough. In some towns/cities in ma, it is still possible to pull a 5 dollar permit. I'm not sure how the costs are covered here!

Tom
 
I had some work done on my house last year. This is North of Seattle by about 8 miles. I had a gas line installed, so that I could run propane to my stove. I had the main service panel replaced.

The first plumber asked me whether I wanted to pull a permit. I didn?t understand the question. I thought he wanted to know if I wanted to save money by applying for and picking up the permit myself, instead of paying him to do it. It turned out that he was offering to do the job without a permit. I didn?t give him the job. The second plumber charged me two hours to drive downtown to file and pick up a permit. But the job was almost done before he sent one of his helpers to make that trip.

The electrician was able to apply for a permit on-line. He had a print out with him on the job site. The State of Washington is kinder to electricians than to plumbers, with regard to the ease of getting a permit.

I was at home when both the inspectors (plumbing and electrical) came by to inspect the jobs. I have signed-off copies of both permits in my records. I will pass them on to the new owner, whenever I get around to selling the place (probably a few years down the road).
 
romeo said:
Im Masscchusetts (MGL )
No person shall intall for hire any wiring or fixtures without or within five days after commencing with the work file for a permit etc.

I guess that means a permit is required for all electrical work. The fine is not to exceed $500.00
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I always wondered what "electrical wiring and electrical fixtures"MGL Ch143 Sec 3L meant. So if I swap a receptacle I need to pull a permit?

Tom
 
romeo said:
I will be glad to fire back. First I wish the inspector was paid that much money for his time.

Next I find that some get the job done in a hurry and get paid and get out kind of electricians ,will do some really poor work knowing that it will not be inspected.

Also there is no reason for the inspection to fail on the small job,and if it does then the installer should pay the panalty.

If you are doing work in the towns I work at you can be sure I will give it a good look. I have inspected receptacle replacements that failed because a 3 wire receptacle replaced a 2 wire one without a ground present. I really think the installer didn't think I would check.

Finally There is no such thing as monetary hardship when it comes to public safety.The home owner should be glad to pay the added expense of a permit fee ,to be sure that the person that he paid to do the work is as dedicated to doing code compliant work as those in this forum.

The truth is inspectors see work done by electricians that don't seem to have a clue or a care about the work they are doing. I as an inspector get great satisfaction by stopping them, in the interest of protecting the consumer. I also get a lot of pleasure from working with and doing all i can to help the good guys to get the job done in a smooth and profitable fashion.

Enough said.
Click to expand...

Like i said i am not saying its a bad idea.But as an inspector do you really think everyone pulls permits ?I once worked for a guy that did many major remodels with no permit and seldom even looked at my work.Glad to say i am no longer with him.
 
Davis9 said:
I always wondered what "electrical wiring and electrical fixtures"MGL Ch143 Sec 3L meant. So if I swap a receptacle I need to pull a permit?

Tom
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It's my understanding that you even need a permit to spit on the sidewalk in MA LOL :D
 
When exactly to pull PERMITS??

Davis9 said:
I always wondered what "electrical wiring and electrical fixtures"MGL Ch143 Sec 3L meant. So if I swap a receptacle I need to pull a permit?

Tom
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Sure looks like that in Mass. Maybe such a permit could be issued without fee. Also I am going to look at accepting applications on line.

The persons I would really like to get to pull permits are catv and satellite dish installers. The work some of them are doing really needs to be inspected.
 
permits

permits

Fella's and ladies. As an inspector who is called out for fires if its electrical the first thing the HO's insurance co. wants to see is all elec permits for the property. Believe me if you didn't pull a permit , whether Its your fault, the HO will throw you right under the bus, then call your lawyer, $ 35.00 is rather cheap insurance (as been said before add your time to go fetch one):cool:
 
Here where I work in Fl, I don't mind "maintenance" w/o a permit but if you are altering or adding there should be one on the job. I too go to fires and it doesn't take much for something to get going.
 
I'm too sick to get to into this thread, but there is a list in the Uniform Administrative Code that tells you what work is exempt from needing a permit.

Here the penelty for working without a permit is, double the permit fee up to $1000.00, now that's just us, then you still might have to deal with the Contractors State License Board and they have way bigger fines.
 
My rule of thumb is that I follow what the law says. That means I pull a permit for anything other than "minor repair work," defined in the statutes as replacing worn or defective parts on electrical equipment or changing out defective receptacles or switches.

It's generally not too much of a hassle to pull a permit where I work. Areas under state jurisdiction require that the permit be in the mail before work starts, and cities where I work often have a way to pull permits online.

It's not worth the risk to work without pulling a permit. If something goes wrong, they're more likely to think it's your fault if you never pulled a permit for the work. Also, getting caught not pulling a permit is a good way to get on the state's bad side -- fines, license suspension, etc. I know an EC who got caught once, and he never made that mistake again.
 
lowryder88h said:
We now call them lumunaires NEC 410
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That's fine but where does it say "recptacles,switches,etc? MGL Ch143 sec 3L.


Tom

Going by your def of fixtures as "luminaires", what is the def of wiring? If it's what I think it is where do receptacles and switches fall in? I pull permits anyways but, when I do, they ask me how many I'm adding usually, so this got me thinking.


Tom
 
fixture

fixture

Davis 9, You're looking at the word fixture in electrical terms. FIXTURE according to Merriam Webster: the act or process of fixing something that is fixed or attached as a permanent appendage or as a structual part. ie. recpt's, sw's. w/ that in mind now reread MGL 143 Sec 3L. :D
 
Davis9 said:
I hear you, where do we find the definition of "fixtures"?

Just a thought.

Tom
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You can get a formal interpretation from the Fire Marshall's office. A FI is related to a code question, though. So if the question is in regards to policy, I believe you need to direct it to the Board of Examiners.

The consensus, as far as I understand it, is that if you were to even change a wirenut you need to obtain a permit. I've had state instructors say that in so many words. But in the real world....
 
In my area the county and city base the need for a permit as well as the cost of a permit on dollar value of the work being done. A job doesn't require a permit unless the job cost is $500.00 or more. The only exception is work requiring the electric service to be disconnected by the PoCo. A permit and inspection is always required for a re-connect by the PoCo regardless of the job cost.
The next county/major town north requires a permit for everything. Job trailer permit, temp electrical pole separate permit, port-o-let separate permit, dumpster separate permit. Seriously, a permit is required for a dumpster and the permit cost is $2.00 per day to have a dumpster on a jobsite. They start counting days when you apply for the dumpster permit and don't stop counting until you bring them the paperwork from the dumpster provider that shows it was removed. I know they made that rule to keep someone from having a dumpster in a residential driveway for months and months but it should be $5.00 for 30 days then maybe $2.00 a day for anything over 30 days.
 
j_erickson said:
You can get a formal interpretation from the Fire Marshall's office. A FI is related to a code question, though. So if the question is in regards to policy, I believe you need to direct it to the Board of Examiners.

The consensus, as far as I understand it, is that if you were to even change a wirenut you need to obtain a permit. I've had state instructors say that in so many words. But in the real world....
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I figured as much, Just making me think. There are many definitions of "Fixtures" was wondering for maintenance reasons.

Tom

Thanks Lowryder88h as well.
 
amptech said:
In my area the county and city base the need for a permit as well as the cost of a permit on dollar value of the work being done. A job doesn't require a permit unless the job cost is $500.00 or more. The only exception is work requiring the electric service to be disconnected by the PoCo. A permit and inspection is always required for a re-connect by the PoCo regardless of the job cost.
The next county/major town north requires a permit for everything. Job trailer permit, temp electrical pole separate permit, port-o-let separate permit, dumpster separate permit. Seriously, a permit is required for a dumpster and the permit cost is $2.00 per day to have a dumpster on a jobsite. They start counting days when you apply for the dumpster permit and don't stop counting until you bring them the paperwork from the dumpster provider that shows it was removed. I know they made that rule to keep someone from having a dumpster in a residential driveway for months and months but it should be $5.00 for 30 days then maybe $2.00 a day for anything over 30 days.
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HMMMM sound like Hitler
 
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