When is a splice allowed?

[iwire]

Here we go again , Idea why not put 3 - 6 ft x 6 ft x 8 in deep junction boxes under a house an use up all your scrap wire from trucks an shop and maybe a few large junction boxes in attic to LOL and I'm sure some here would think of doing it.

real class act there.

The member asked for the NEC rules not what winzip thinks ....... or should we lie to the member and tell him the NEC prohibits splices?

 

[WinZip]

It's not a code Question it was a Question about the professional way to Install that circuit so why is it a BS question SIR BOB...

 

[WinZip]

One last note, I have known many workman that new the code but could not do the work in a professional manner and I have also know many Electricians that didn't know the codes that well that were masters of the trade.

I see that here to.

 

[iwire]

It's not a code Question it was a Question about the professional way to Install that circuit

Really? I thought this was lunalilo's thread and he seems to asking a code question.

so why is it a BS question

Because it is written in a way that aims at the result YOU want.

OK lets say we have a single run 65 ft 6/3 CU with grd to a range outlet , now which is the proper an professional way to run this circuit.

#1 Complete run from electrical panel to the range outlet.

#2 Run 30 ft to a junction box then 35 ft to range outlet.

#3 Run 25 ft to first junction box then 30 ft to second junction box then 10 ft to the range outlet.

The only answer is to choose #1 or #2 or #3

Obviously the preferred choice in most cases will be #1, but that will not always be the best choice. Job conditions and other factors come in to play but you want to make this a case of one is is right and the other way is wrong.

I personally will never see it in those black and white terms. If you do that is your right but I think it shows a guy that cannot adjust to the job at hand.

Lets try my question written for the result I want.

OK lets say we are remodeling a kitchen, the run from the range to the panel is 75' but the range is moving 10' more away from the panel. Now which is the proper and professional way to relocate this circuit

#1 Replace the complete run from electrical panel to the range outlet.

#2 Bring the existing HR into a junction box and splice on 15' of new cable to the relocated range outlet.

SIR BOB...

That is pretty funny, you are trying to give me a hard time when it is you that is clearly riding a very high horse here. :grin:

 

[WinZip]

Really? I thought this was lunalilo's thread and he seems to asking a code question.



Because it is written in a way that aims at the result YOU want.



Obviously the preferred choice in most cases will be #1, but that will not always be the best choice. Job conditions and other factors come in to play but you want to make this a case of one is is right and the other way is wrong.

I personally will never see it in those black and white terms. If you do that is your right but I think it shows a guy that cannot adjust to the job at hand.

Lets try my question written for the result I want.

OK lets say we are remodeling a kitchen, the run from the range to the panel is 75' but the range is moving 10' more away from the panel. Now which is the proper and professional way to relocate this circuit

#1 Replace the complete run from electrical panel to the range outlet.

#2 Bring the existing HR into a junction box and splice on 15' of new cable to the relocated range outlet.




That is pretty funny, you are trying to give me a hard time when it is you that is clearly riding a very high horse here. :grin:

I apologize , in that case you win an I lose but I'm not riding my high horse either.

 

[roger]

I'm not riding my high horse either.

Hmmm, then why the better than thou attitude through out your posts?

Roger

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The point is that most everyone in this forum, even the hacks--, would not splice wires unnecessarily in most cases but we also agree there is no code violation to do so. The fact that we stated, I feel like I can talk for most of us, it is legal to splice as much as you want, does not mean we would do so.

 

[WinZip]

Hmmm, then why the better than thou attitude through out your posts?

Roger

I don't think it was meant as I am better than you attitude , it was only meant as a professional Question whether it was professional to splice a new run.

I guess i came up on the wrong side of the track.

To end my post here - to each his own is the best way to put it.

 

[iwire]

I'm not riding my high horse either.

WZ, maybe you don't mean it but without a doubt your attitude is one of superiority take a look at what you have said.

Here we go again , Idea why not put 3 - 6 ft x 6 ft x 8 in deep junction boxes under a house an use up all your scrap wire from trucks an shop and maybe a few large junction boxes in attic to LOL and I'm sure some here would think of doing it.

real class act there.

OK then how about 80 4 x 4 or 60 4 11/16th boxes

To me it's just not the proper way for a tradesmen or master to conduct his trade,but there are many in here that think splicing is fine.

Curious to know when most of you started in this trade where you taught these wiring habits.

Well Dave if you can sleep at night then continue that way but i am old school an i just cant see taking these jack leg short cuts , just my opinion.

When I estimate a run it is with out splice an I don't mean receptacle - lighting - switch boxes where you do make joints I am speaking about dedicated runs , ranges - dryers - ovens - water heaters - home runs to first outlet box of 8 to 10 outlets ETC

Pride in the Electrical field is slowly slipping away from what I see on jobs I have looked at an seen.

OK lets say we have a single run 65 ft 6/3 CU with grd to a range outlet , now which is the proper an professional way to run this circuit.

#1 Complete run from electrical panel to the range outlet.

#2 Run 30 ft to a junction box then 35 ft to range outlet.

#3 Run 25 ft to first junction box then 30 ft to second junction box then 10 ft to the range outlet.

The only answer is to choose #1 or #2 or #3

Can we just get an answer without all the other BS!

It's not a code Question it was a Question about the professional way to Install that circuit so why is it a BS question SIR BOB...

One last note, I have known many workman that new the code but could not do the work in a professional manner and I have also know many Electricians that didn't know the codes that well that were masters of the trade.

I see that here to.

No one is a 'master of the trade' without knowing the codes as well as the work.

They can be ace mechanics or in sometimes even hold a 'masters license' but they would not be 'masters of the trade'.

 

[zog]

Not one person implied that. That is a bit overboard.

I have great respect for what you do and the specs involved, but this is a rather unfair statement insinuating malfeasance.

Yeah, that is a bit overboard but my comment was made in jest, however there were several comments in that thread stating they would do whatever was necessary to save money. The impression I got from some of the people in that thread is they would use whatever they had and make as many splices as needed.

Others seem to think that using scrap is unprofessional (About 70% in fact based on the poll). True I have little clue on how things work in the residential world but I found some of those comments shocking. The way I see it, from a consumer point of view, I paid for a job to be done and would expect the electrician to pull the correct lenght of wire (Which I am sure I am paying for in the materials of the job) off a spool, not use scrap sections left over from another job. When you (Or anyone) does this to save money is that discount reflected on the customer invoice?

 

[jumper]

The point is that most everyone in this forum, even the hacks--, would not splice wires unnecessarily in most cases but we also agree there is no code violation to do so. The fact that we stated, I feel like I can talk for most of us, it is legal to splice as much as you want, does not mean we would do so.

Nice summation.

 

[iwire]

Others seem to think that using scrap is unprofessional (About 70% in fact based on the poll).

The 'could not have been written with more bias' poll? :grin:

Here is a synopsis of that poll. :grin:

Are you a professorial who never splices?

Are you a low life hack who splices and takes candy from babies?

 

[roger]

Others seem to think that using scrap is unprofessional (About 70% in fact based on the poll).

To be correct, about 70% agreed to a designed answer based on the wording of only two questions, not exactly a true poll IMO

Roger

 

[iwire]

The fact that we stated, I feel like I can talk for most of us, it is legal to splice as much as you want, does not mean we would do so.

Exactly!

 

[zog]

I don't think it was meant as I am better than you attitude , it was only meant as a professional Question whether it was professional to splice a new run.

I guess i came up on the wrong side of the track.

To end my post here - to each his own is the best way to put it.

I can see you and there is no track between us.

The NEC is a minimum requirement, some see this as the all they have to do is meet the code, others feel that doing a professional job, exceeding the minimum requirements, is something to be proud of. I guess those people all are on some high horse because that term sure gets thrown around here a lot.

I take a lot of pride in the work my company does, we greatly exceed all standards that apply because there are some concerns about reliability when only following the minimum requirements, so I write my own standards that our company follows.

 

[jumper]

Yeah, that is a bit overboard but my comment was made in jest, however there were several comments in that thread stating they would do whatever was necessary to save money. The impression I got from some of the people in that thread is they would use whatever they had and make as many splices as needed.

Others seem to think that using scrap is unprofessional (About 70% in fact based on the poll). True I have little clue on how things work in the residential world but I found some of those comments shocking. The way I see it, from a consumer point of view, I paid for a job to be done and would expect the electrician to pull the correct lenght of wire (Which I am sure I am paying for in the materials of the job) off a spool, not use scrap sections left over from another job. When you (Or anyone) does this to save money is that discount reflected on the customer invoice?

Zog,

Look at Iwires example above, that is what many of us are talking about.

Also sometimes runs get complicated and a splice will make the job much easier.
Example: my house, new circuit to kitchen.
Homerun to box in crawlspace, 3 cables spliced to homerun and fished up walls, 1 GFCI breaker. Done in 1 hour.
Looping from outlet to outlet would have been a PITA.

If I were an EC, I would have done the same thing for a customer.

Again, we are talking about using good unused left over cable and not trash scrap.

 

[iwire]

The NEC is a minimum requirement,

Yes

some see this as the all they have to do is meet the code,

It is all we have to do unless there are specs.

others feel that doing a professional job, exceeding the minimum requirements, is something to be proud of.

I bet we all want to be proud of our work. But knowing the minimums and being able to adjust to job conditions and pricing is not unprofessional, it is smart.

I take a lot of pride in the work my company does, we greatly exceed all standards that apply because there are some concerns about reliability when only following the minimum requirements, so I write my own standards that our company follows.

That is great, many of us would be very happy if all customers felt the same way. The company you work for is a niche type company and it is expected to go above and beyond. I also am willing to bet you collect a very high premium for that work.

But the cold and hard fact is the large majority of electrical contracting goes to the low, or even lowest price.

If the customer is only willing to pay for a Kia I am not going to give them a Rolls.

Now if I have agreed to do the job for a 'Kia price' I have to know the minimums, I have to know how to provide the customer with a code compliant and safe job even if it will never be on the cover of EC&M.

 

[zog]

If the customer is only willing to pay for a Kia I am not going to give them a Rolls.

Now if I have agreed to do the job for a 'Kia price' I have to know the minimums, I have to know how to provide the customer with a code compliant and safe job even if it will never be on the cover of EC&M.

That "Kia price" included your cost for new Kia parts too. Now my new Kia shows up with some leftover old parts from a scrapyard I am going to be pissed off.

 

[roger]

That "Kia price" included your cost for new Kia parts too. Now my new Kia shows up with some leftover old parts from a scrapyard I am going to be pissed off.

This is where your stuck, you can't grasp the fact that the discussion is dealing with NEW materials.

Roger

 

[zog]

This is where your stuck, you can't grasp the fact that the discussion is dealing with NEW materials.

Roger

OK, unused kia parts that were cut in pieces and welded back together.