When you have to set a hundred of these....

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ctclark1

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Electronics Technician
Timeclocks. Digital, Analog, Astronomic, Basic, Single Channel, 4 Channel. You name it, I deal with it at work. I have close to 100 timeclocks strewn across a myriad of buildings on a large multi-building facility. Some of them are in a central point in a building. Some of the buildings have 5 different timeclocks in a bunch of different rooms. Some places the timeclocks aren't even in a building.

So my frustration is.... Why on earth has no one made a timeclock that can at least set its time by GPS? I know the "easy" answer would be one central system, and while I'd love to be able to control all of the lights around the property from my desk, the budget is not currently viable for the costs of any system like that, especially considering we'd need a wireless mesh system to do so, and that's not the point of the discussion.

It seems like it could be done fairly inexpensively. "GPS LightLock" makes photocells with all of the extra electronics to set their time and location from GPS, and follow an astronomic timetable to control lights, all for not a whole lot more than their basic photocell counterparts. A device like an Intermatic Astronomic Timeclock already has all the sunrise/sunset tables, so why wouldn't it be possible to add a GPS unit to it, or even a radio controlled clock for the NIST signals? It's just silly to me, the only way I could have an autoset time is the highest end networked models. That's something that just isn't possible here, and I can't imagine it's that uncommon of a desire out there.

And yes, the "GPS LightLock" I mentioned could be an option for some of these locations, but in a lot of these buildings the timeclocks control interior lights or fans that would have to be on during the day, not at night. Others turn exterior lights off around midnight instead of running all night. And the times I need set is variable from year to year, sometimes month to month - not something I can do with the LightLock devices because they're pre-configured at the factory, and I would apparently have to send them back to the factory to change the times.

So again, I rant... Why haven't Intermatic or Tork done anything to keep their timeclocks more accurate over the past decade?

Excuse my rant. Carry on.
 
That problem was solved by most energy codes that require photocell and timer together.
 
In a lot of buildings, getting GPS is a problem. You typically need an outside antenna, so you need a run of coax to get outside. And maybe a splitter if you have multiple items that need the signal.

After about 6 GPS antennas sprouted on the roof, I finally put a GPS distribution system in a lab building where almost every room wanted a GPS antenna and the building itself was shielded. One antenna, a big splitter. Even used a fiber optic gps distribution system since we already had fiber to each lab.
 
Forum user mgookin was working for someone who was developing something like this a few years ago. Looks like they haven’t posted in a couple years though.
 
When doing Traffic Signal coordination to keep the intersection in sync, we used WWV receivers in each controller cabinet. You just needed a small antenna.
 
I'd be ok with WWV receivers even, in lieu of GPS. But I haven't found any timeclocks that have that either.

Time servers requires internet connection. A scant few of the locations I'd be concerned with have network available, and only the most expensive of timeclocks from Intermatic have network connections that I've seen. I'd rather move towards a centralized management solution like NX, Autani, or Synapse, but again the budget doesn't allow for that unfortunately, and even that would be a stretch getting communication between some of the buildings.
 
ctclark1 said:
I'd be ok with WWV receivers even, in lieu of GPS. But I haven't found any timeclocks that have that either.

Time servers requires internet connection. A scant few of the locations I'd be concerned with have network available, and only the most expensive of timeclocks from Intermatic have network connections that I've seen. I'd rather move towards a centralized management solution like NX, Autani, or Synapse, but again the budget doesn't allow for that unfortunately, and even that would be a stretch getting communication between some of the buildings.
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The County of Los Angeles did a no bid contract with 3M to design a WWV receiver to work with the 170 microprocessors. The original coordinating systems started with underground conduit from intersection to intersection. Then went with dedicated circuits with Pacific Bell. That didn't work out since their field technicians kept thinking it was a normal telephone line.
 
sii said:
Forum user mgookin was working for someone who was developing something like this a few years ago. Looks like they haven’t posted in a couple years though.
Click to expand...
That's who "GPS Lightlock" is that was mentioned in the OP. He is still around but mostly on ET forum.
 
I agree with OP, why is a simple programmable time clock with automatic clock setting not a thing?

I've been poking at this, and the closest that I've seen as an actual product you can buy are systems that use GPS to synchronize the clocks in traffic lights.

Of course there are many many IP network controlled smart switches, that use the network for time synchronization and programming, but these open up lots of other issues, such as security holes.

I'd want something that is locally programmed, has a local built in clock, and then uses GPS to keep that that local clock accurate time.

I bet these guys could build em, but it wouldn't be cheap.

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There are lots of ways to crack this nut with available hardware, eg. various microcontrollers with GPS modules. But all such 'easy to program' systems leave something to be desired security wise.

-Jon
 
Dunno. I installed a church carillon many years ago that only drifts maybe two minutes in five years. So, maybe the time clock manufacturers should spend a few extra dollars for better clock chips.

Frank DuVal said:
Actually WWVB is the clock time signal. I have 4 of these clocks around the house, one is a weather clock. ;)
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Yeah. I have one hanging on the wall of my kitchen. It randomly changes by a factor of one hour no matter what I do. Getting ready to throw it in the dumpster.

-Hal
 
No, Pelican is a networked building control solution. I didn't look deeply, but they mention subscription options for their control app...which suggests cloud based control, making the device dependent not only on the local network, but on connection to the internet.

Obviously such a system could turn a light on and off, and keep its clock set...until the network gets disrupted.

They don't appear to have a simple isolated time switch with automatic clock setting. That is what the OP was asking for.

Jon
 
I remember discussions like this some 30 years ago when PLCs were becoming 'inexpensive' and common. At that time a Casio wristwatch was more accurate than any PLC. This problem wasn't solved until network communications were added and the internal clock chips could be ignored.
 
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