Where do you feel the trade is going

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Rick 0920

Senior Member
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Occupation
Electrical Instructor
There are a lot of different factors about why the younger generation of workers do not seem to be as skilled as those before them. One that is often overlooked today is the fact that consumers today will continually accept subpar work! It's true! Look back to the early 80's when I entered the trade. If I had a job where the device plates weren't level or flush to the wall, someone was going back to fix them. Today, builders and other forms of services have learned what the auto industry has done for many years. Wear the consumers down. Do the work as quickly as you can and make the consumer come up with a punch list. Chances are, they won't find everything you would find if you had been meticulous. After a few punch lists and walks of the property, consumers are like, "Ughhhhh!, just let me sign and get this over with. I want to move in!" It's not that todays apprentices can't be as skilled as we were. It's that they have been taught that they don't have to be. When consumers stop accepting sub-standard work, you will see better skilled workers because it will become a requirement. About 4 years ago, my daughter bought a new home in Dallas and was excited for me to see it. She paid a little under 500K for this home. The baseboards looked like a rollercoaster when you looked down the walls and I could see tape joints through the watered-down paint on the walls. AND SHE WAS HAPPY ABOUT HER PURCHASE! My last year as a foreman I completed a 2 1/2 year job in Oklahoma City and had a very small punch list. The company had just been handed over to the 28 year son to run. I was told that I could have made more money if I wasn't so particular about my work and that the owner would have never complained about many of the items that I had my guys make look better. Believe me guys, our younger workers are just as skilled as we are. Society just says that they don't have to be.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Once again I blame the schools. OK, that might be blaming another victim. But the focus on passing exams, rather than true learning, results in the teaching focusing on facts instead of concepts.

And so speaking about transformers, small 480/120 control transformers for motor starters are set up to be 480/240 or 240/120, too. Find out that some house wiring guy got it into many electricians heads at this plant to wire them like a house. 480/240 with the center tap going to ground as a neutral. The other leg just sits there.

When I do work with a new guy I try to get him to learn from the inside out by asking questions much more than by telling him facts. Like: "If you put more resistance in a 120v circuit, will the current go up or down?" Better than saying I = E/R.
Are you saying they feed the primary side with an ungrounded and then connect the center tap to the frame/cabinet? Thus energizing only half the primary coil, but likely @ 277 instead of 240 and of course with a return path over non intended current carrying components?
 

TwoBlocked

Senior Member
Location
Bradford County, PA
Occupation
Industrial Electrician
What I am saying is when feeding the primary with 480 as shown in above right, normally the secondary is connected as shown in below left with X2 taken to ground. Instead they connect the secondary as shown in below right, take X2 to ground, take 120 from X1 to X2 and don't do anything with X4. This would be like a 100 VA transformer in a combo starter or MCC cubicle.


1679060826866.png
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
What I am saying is when feeding the primary with 480 as shown in above right, normally the secondary is connected as shown in below left with X2 taken to ground. Instead they connect the secondary as shown in below right, take X2 to ground, take 120 from X1 to X2 and don't do anything with X4. This would be like a 100 VA transformer in a combo starter or MCC cubicle.


View attachment 2564457
So they effectively halved the output capacity of the unit then. And probably didn't even realize just what they did.
 

TwoBlocked

Senior Member
Location
Bradford County, PA
Occupation
Industrial Electrician
So they effectively halved the output capacity of the unit then. And probably didn't even realize just what they did.
Yep, got a different job on the line. There's more ways you could backfeed 480, 4160, and even 34.5 here than you would believe. Kirk keys? Yeah, we got duplicates already in their locks in strategic places in case you can't get the one out that you need. Oh, yeah!
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Yep, got a different job on the line. There's more ways you could backfeed 480, 4160, and even 34.5 here than you would believe. Kirk keys? Yeah, we got duplicates already in their locks in strategic places in case you can't get the one out that you need. Oh, yeah!
I had Square D send out some Kirk key gear to a job where both were keyed different! Kinda defeats the purpose! LOL!
 
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