Where's the Pride
- Thread starter dcv
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electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Where's the Pride
Re: Where's the Pride
I learned something about demanded respect in the military. There's earned respect and there's demanded respect. Demanded get's you squat, you need to do the good job to get the respect. Respect is something you give and don't demand. Just because some j___ a__ had bars on his shoulder with a college degree said I had to call him "sir" well he got called "sir" all right but didn't get any more respect. Actually got less, but he went home happy I guess.
I learned something about demanded respect in the military. There's earned respect and there's demanded respect. Demanded get's you squat, you need to do the good job to get the respect. Respect is something you give and don't demand. Just because some j___ a__ had bars on his shoulder with a college degree said I had to call him "sir" well he got called "sir" all right but didn't get any more respect. Actually got less, but he went home happy I guess.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Where's the Pride
This thread will not be permitted to evolve into a ?union versus non-union? discussion. If it starts heading in that direction, the thread will be removed.
The original question has to do with instilling pride in those who work for us. Let?s keep to that topic.
This thread will not be permitted to evolve into a ?union versus non-union? discussion. If it starts heading in that direction, the thread will be removed.
The original question has to do with instilling pride in those who work for us. Let?s keep to that topic.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Re: Where's the Pride
I have not seen much difference in the quality of work between union and non-union shops where the people running the shop actually want and expect quality work.
If you are an EC that wants to be involved in doing quality work you cna be proud of, its likely there are jobs you will just have to pass on sometimes.
OTOH, I am not all that convinced that less expensive means lower quality. I think there is also something to be said for "good enough". Regardless of how you feel about it, cost is always part of the equation.
A place I used to work had a cost control manager who called it "gold plating". It took me a while to figure out that what he meant was that there are things that are nice to do and actually make a difference in the end result, and there are things that don't. Focus on the things that actually matter. Using all SS screws might be thought of as "quality" by some, but galvanized is quite adeqaute in most cases.
I have not seen much difference in the quality of work between union and non-union shops where the people running the shop actually want and expect quality work.
If you are an EC that wants to be involved in doing quality work you cna be proud of, its likely there are jobs you will just have to pass on sometimes.
OTOH, I am not all that convinced that less expensive means lower quality. I think there is also something to be said for "good enough". Regardless of how you feel about it, cost is always part of the equation.
A place I used to work had a cost control manager who called it "gold plating". It took me a while to figure out that what he meant was that there are things that are nice to do and actually make a difference in the end result, and there are things that don't. Focus on the things that actually matter. Using all SS screws might be thought of as "quality" by some, but galvanized is quite adeqaute in most cases.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Where's the Pride
Thanks Roger.
My post came from personal experience. I have worked for people who were constantly negative and it got to the point where I didn't care about the quality of my work because I was going to be criticized anyway, no matter what.
In a perfect world, wouldn't it be great if we could only work with people who:
1. Love the electrical profession and have a constant desire to learn and expand their skills.
2. Are willing to teach as well as learn from others.
Thanks Roger.
My post came from personal experience. I have worked for people who were constantly negative and it got to the point where I didn't care about the quality of my work because I was going to be criticized anyway, no matter what.
In a perfect world, wouldn't it be great if we could only work with people who:
1. Love the electrical profession and have a constant desire to learn and expand their skills.
2. Are willing to teach as well as learn from others.
Re: Where's the Pride
I probably shouldn't report this as it can be abused. A study was done quite a while ago about employee attitudes in a fixed environment. They weren't laying people off, moving them around. The work and hours were stable. They did several experiments to determine what boosted employee morale and production.
In all cases the employees were treated with respect, not lied to (other than the test), not demeaned in any way, and informed to the level of their interest, but in all cases informed personally about the situation. Personally.
In one case, they gave everyone a raise after telling them that production was up, but needed to go still higher. Production rose. Another group was not given a raise, was told the reason and was asked to boost production. Production went up. In a third situation, wages were lowered, employees given the reason, and were asked to boost production. Production went up. I do not know if morale went up in all situations (can't remember study's name).
Conclusion.
Morale is a function of employees being included in the process of their daily living.
On a personal note; I only know how to be a good boss if everything goes well, as I am an ......e when it goes south. I never sought that route because of that.
paul
I probably shouldn't report this as it can be abused. A study was done quite a while ago about employee attitudes in a fixed environment. They weren't laying people off, moving them around. The work and hours were stable. They did several experiments to determine what boosted employee morale and production.
In all cases the employees were treated with respect, not lied to (other than the test), not demeaned in any way, and informed to the level of their interest, but in all cases informed personally about the situation. Personally.
In one case, they gave everyone a raise after telling them that production was up, but needed to go still higher. Production rose. Another group was not given a raise, was told the reason and was asked to boost production. Production went up. In a third situation, wages were lowered, employees given the reason, and were asked to boost production. Production went up. I do not know if morale went up in all situations (can't remember study's name).
Conclusion.
Morale is a function of employees being included in the process of their daily living.
On a personal note; I only know how to be a good boss if everything goes well, as I am an ......e when it goes south. I never sought that route because of that.
paul
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Where's the Pride
What I find is effective along with just general common courtesy is to let the people doing the work have input in how to get it done.
Sure there are times I have to say; You will do this, then that and then turn to the left etc.
But many times I simple tell them the goal and let them determine the method.
Tell me how you plan to do it and give me a stock list I will get it.
All of us work better from our own ideas and like to show others what we can come up with.
Yeah this has lead to some 'do overs' but hey that happens.
Most times it leads to workers that want to get back to work after break or lunch and continue putting their ideas to work.
Also I never ask them to do something I will not do myself.
What I find is effective along with just general common courtesy is to let the people doing the work have input in how to get it done.
Sure there are times I have to say; You will do this, then that and then turn to the left etc.
But many times I simple tell them the goal and let them determine the method.
Tell me how you plan to do it and give me a stock list I will get it.
All of us work better from our own ideas and like to show others what we can come up with.
Yeah this has lead to some 'do overs' but hey that happens.
Most times it leads to workers that want to get back to work after break or lunch and continue putting their ideas to work.
Also I never ask them to do something I will not do myself.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Where's the Pride
A negitive attitudw breads like cancer !!!I have found that no matter how good and presise a job a guy/gal does if he has a negative additude then he has to go Just wish there were more of them to go around.Oh by the way it was a 4,200 sq. ft. home loaded with extras and took 4 1/2 days 2 guys to rough it in.....
A negitive attitudw breads like cancer !!!I have found that no matter how good and presise a job a guy/gal does if he has a negative additude then he has to go
Just wish there were more of them to go around.Oh by the way it was a 4,200 sq. ft. home loaded with extras and took 4 1/2 days 2 guys to rough it in.....
physis
Senior Member
Re: Where's the Pride
It wasn't all that long ago that I thought The NEC was mostly just too much lawyer talk, too difficult to understand and use, and causes as many problems as it solves. I still think that. But I also think that without it, leaving things to the industry to handle of it's own accord, there just might be buildings burning down all around us. Things do seem to have come to that.
I agree with the original question. What happened?
I don't mean to get too philosophical, but are we working so hard, fast and furiously for? What don't we have yet?
It wasn't all that long ago that I thought The NEC was mostly just too much lawyer talk, too difficult to understand and use, and causes as many problems as it solves. I still think that. But I also think that without it, leaving things to the industry to handle of it's own accord, there just might be buildings burning down all around us. Things do seem to have come to that.
I agree with the original question. What happened?
I don't mean to get too philosophical, but are we working so hard, fast and furiously for? What don't we have yet?
jdelectric
Member
Re: Where's the Pride
I go to this website all the time so I can improve myself. I learn alot about how others work with the code along with ethics. It is hard to compete with others who do not pull permits and get inspections along with shortcuts that put others in danger.
I go to this website all the time so I can improve myself. I learn alot about how others work with the code along with ethics. It is hard to compete with others who do not pull permits and get inspections along with shortcuts that put others in danger.
Re: Where's the Pride
Thanks to all who replied to this thread,I have been running work for over 11 years,I believe in praise and I believe in raise after a job well done, I also believe in giving the raise before they ask,I think a well trained electrician is a good asset ,I do layout for the work head off them, but also let them use their own ideas ,I believe in being firm ,but fair and I believe a bad attitude must be remove quickly ,have tried everything I can think of,including everything mentioned in this thread, With all due respect to you heavy hitter "you know who you are" I really learned a lot this time from the guys have are actually are turning the wrenches.If have determined one thing from this, as difficult as it may be to do I think it comes down to a case by case thing.I believe some people either through their upbringing or maybe a bad experience with a former employer will not do quality work.
Thank you again fellas for the enlightenment,Its good to have a site to go to for good professional advice
dcv
Thanks to all who replied to this thread,I have been running work for over 11 years,I believe in praise and I believe in raise after a job well done, I also believe in giving the raise before they ask,I think a well trained electrician is a good asset ,I do layout for the work head off them, but also let them use their own ideas ,I believe in being firm ,but fair and I believe a bad attitude must be remove quickly ,have tried everything I can think of,including everything mentioned in this thread, With all due respect to you heavy hitter "you know who you are" I really learned a lot this time from the guys have are actually are turning the wrenches.If have determined one thing from this, as difficult as it may be to do I think it comes down to a case by case thing.I believe some people either through their upbringing or maybe a bad experience with a former employer will not do quality work.
Thank you again fellas for the enlightenment,Its good to have a site to go to for good professional advice
dcv
Re: Where's the Pride
I don't know who this Heavy Hitter is you refer to but you still haven't addressed the issue of, whats on your payroll sir. And who you are trying to instill values of craftmanship into.You walked away from this thread,left it unanswered.So I must assume I was correct in my analysis.Ya danced all around it sir.Shame on you Mr. Contractor,or(superitendent sir)..Are you infact getting what you are paying for? This cheaper man-hour rate.The good Electrical Craftsmen that you do have.Do they have to tote the line and work harder to carry the load of the others that came here Illeagally, taking work from us,in lining the pockets of your corporation.
I see this wave on the horizon,like some others in the large contruction end of this trade/craft.I was out of work for a few year due to injuries.When I came back to the field, the illeagals,they are everywhere.What you can't find for your installation,maybe there looking in another avenues also.Maybe some might be overseas right now rebuilding with the largest of contractors,to feed there families,pay their bills.This thought,it has crossed my mind too.
Bad attitude,call it as you will sir.Your entitled to your opinion.You got mine Chief..
Mr. heavy hitter? :roll:
Politically Incorrect,yeh maybe.
---->dillon3c<--
[ February 15, 2005, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
Out of respect for the moderator,I'll not make this a issue of the open-shop,or of the Brotherhood.I have worked in the I.B.E.W,carried the Yellow Ticket A(#-8O444-)J.I.W.,I'll leave letter # out.Yeh,I've seen respect,craftmanship.And I know it's against protocol to refer to anyone outside this organization as Brother,but I do.Carrying ticket or not,still a Brother of the trade.I'll say they taught(instilled)in me the meaning of craftmanship,leadership,unity,from the early years.
I don't know who this Heavy Hitter is you refer to but you still haven't addressed the issue of, whats on your payroll sir. And who you are trying to instill values of craftmanship into.You walked away from this thread,left it unanswered.So I must assume I was correct in my analysis.Ya danced all around it sir.Shame on you Mr. Contractor,or(superitendent sir)..Are you infact getting what you are paying for? This cheaper man-hour rate.The good Electrical Craftsmen that you do have.Do they have to tote the line and work harder to carry the load of the others that came here Illeagally, taking work from us,in lining the pockets of your corporation.
I see this wave on the horizon,like some others in the large contruction end of this trade/craft.I was out of work for a few year due to injuries.When I came back to the field, the illeagals,they are everywhere.What you can't find for your installation,maybe there looking in another avenues also.Maybe some might be overseas right now rebuilding with the largest of contractors,to feed there families,pay their bills.This thought,it has crossed my mind too.
Bad attitude,call it as you will sir.Your entitled to your opinion.You got mine Chief..
Mr. heavy hitter? :roll:
Politically Incorrect,yeh maybe.
---->dillon3c<--
[ February 15, 2005, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
Re: Where's the Pride
My upbringing is my # one plus Sir.And if you took the time to read my first post,craftmanship,(not that it wouldn't be offered anyway).It's got nothing to do with the contractor that employs me.I never stray from it,or my morals.That's a pretty -(petty)- cheap shot.I do take exception to it.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Where's the Pride
This one has gone far enough beyond the original question, and that question has been addressed as well as may be expected. I'm closing the thread.
This one has gone far enough beyond the original question, and that question has been addressed as well as may be expected. I'm closing the thread.
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