whirlpool in bathroom
- Thread starter shelco
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abode electric
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- New jersey
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
check 406.8c and 410.4d
check 406.8c and 410.4d
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
Adobe is correct. The paddle fan is permitted over the tub provided that is it above 8' from the top edge of the tub. This would put it out of the restricted tub zone. The receptacle however cannot be above the tub. It could be just off to the side of the tub. I've found that this article is creating more and more problems with designers and homeowners who want to install flat screen TV's over there expensive tubs. Maybe a code change is needed in the future to address this growing problem.
Adobe is correct. The paddle fan is permitted over the tub provided that is it above 8' from the top edge of the tub. This would put it out of the restricted tub zone. The receptacle however cannot be above the tub. It could be just off to the side of the tub. I've found that this article is creating more and more problems with designers and homeowners who want to install flat screen TV's over there expensive tubs. Maybe a code change is needed in the future to address this growing problem.
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
That's not a requirement.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
The receptacle can be anywhere outside of the tub. If you drew a vertical line upwards from the tub edge the receptacle could be anywhere outside of that line. There is no 3' requirement.
The receptacle can be anywhere outside of the tub. If you drew a vertical line upwards from the tub edge the receptacle could be anywhere outside of that line. There is no 3' requirement.
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
This is the type thing that really confuses me. The NEC say's it's unsafe to put rec over tub. But now that rich people want to put expensive flat screen TV's over there tubs so they can lounge in a bubble bath while they watch the tube, it's a growing problem and the NEC should change to say it's safe?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
410.4(D) addresses luminaires within the tub zone, but doesn't address the growing problem of TV's located there. The point that I was trying to make is that the receptacle could be an inch outside of the tub area with a cord from a plasma TV which is mounted over the tub plugged into it. The code doesn't address this directly. And for the record, is a receptacle located an inch from the tubs edge, with the cord dangling any safer than one mounted directly behind a flat screen TV within the tub space that is now inaccessible without removing the TV?
410.4(D) addresses luminaires within the tub zone, but doesn't address the growing problem of TV's located there. The point that I was trying to make is that the receptacle could be an inch outside of the tub area with a cord from a plasma TV which is mounted over the tub plugged into it. The code doesn't address this directly. And for the record, is a receptacle located an inch from the tubs edge, with the cord dangling any safer than one mounted directly behind a flat screen TV within the tub space that is now inaccessible without removing the TV?
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
I apologize infinity, I was reading your statement wrong. I had the impression that the comment was to say that the NEC should say it was safe. I think the problem is just like many others. NEC can't tell you what you can and can not plug into rec. and even if rec is farther away, these people would just run an extension cord.
Also like in other threads, can you install a receptacle that is intended to be covered by a TV screen that would make it safe (in some one's opinion). What if the TV doesn't get put there, or removed later on.
I apologize infinity, I was reading your statement wrong. I had the impression that the comment was to say that the NEC should say it was safe. I think the problem is just like many others. NEC can't tell you what you can and can not plug into rec. and even if rec is farther away, these people would just run an extension cord.
Also like in other threads, can you install a receptacle that is intended to be covered by a TV screen that would make it safe (in some one's opinion). What if the TV doesn't get put there, or removed later on.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
69boss302
No offense taken. I was just trying to point out that the NEC cannot address every possible scenario. IMO the code needs to address the entire TV over the tub possibility. As far as not installing the TV and having a receptacle over the tub without a TV, that is possible but the NEC does allow this in other sections of the code. The one that comes to mind is 210.8(A) (2) exception #2 which allows non GFCI receptacles to be installed in a garage if they aren't readily accessible or are for an appliance that occupies a dedicated space such as a freezer. Certainly the freezer could be moved or never installed. Maybe the code could adapt a version of this section to deal explicitly with the TV over the tub issue.
69boss302
No offense taken. I was just trying to point out that the NEC cannot address every possible scenario. IMO the code needs to address the entire TV over the tub possibility. As far as not installing the TV and having a receptacle over the tub without a TV, that is possible but the NEC does allow this in other sections of the code. The one that comes to mind is 210.8(A) (2) exception #2 which allows non GFCI receptacles to be installed in a garage if they aren't readily accessible or are for an appliance that occupies a dedicated space such as a freezer. Certainly the freezer could be moved or never installed. Maybe the code could adapt a version of this section to deal explicitly with the TV over the tub issue.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
The tv receptacle in a tub enclosure is not a problem, the mentality of "wanting" one there is.
Our society has become such a ME society... what is good for ME!!!
A good designer can design the bathroom with a tv located in other than the tub enclosure, it would not hurt the client... would it.
Because of this, with the designer getting paid big bucks from the big bucks customer who can yell the LOUDEST $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, safety may suffer. We do not need code changes for this, just design changes.
The tv receptacle in a tub enclosure is not a problem, the mentality of "wanting" one there is.
Our society has become such a ME society... what is good for ME!!!
A good designer can design the bathroom with a tv located in other than the tub enclosure, it would not hurt the client... would it.
Because of this, with the designer getting paid big bucks from the big bucks customer who can yell the LOUDEST $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, safety may suffer. We do not need code changes for this, just design changes.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
Pierre,
Pierre,
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
I would have to say that I almost always concur with your posts but I don't agree with this one. My original point is that the code must evolve with the rest of the world. Here is the North East where homes cost a million or so bucks these design trends are already here now and they're here to stay. I was just trying to say that at some point the NEC will have to address this issue and similar issues.
Somewhere along the way someone thought that it would be a good idea to put a 120 volt fixture in a pool full of water. It then became apparent that a logical design was needed to safely accomplish this. Now we have 680.34(B). The same logic applies here.
Pierre,
I would have to say that I almost always concur with your posts but I don't agree with this one. My original point is that the code must evolve with the rest of the world. Here is the North East where homes cost a million or so bucks these design trends are already here now and they're here to stay. I was just trying to say that at some point the NEC will have to address this issue and similar issues.
Somewhere along the way someone thought that it would be a good idea to put a 120 volt fixture in a pool full of water. It then became apparent that a logical design was needed to safely accomplish this. Now we have 680.34(B). The same logic applies here.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
Infinity
My comment is/was general and not aimed at you.
The light fixture in the pool is not a great analogy, but I understand what you are trying to say.
IMO - the NEC has some real issues that are not easy, when first addressed, to deal with.
The pool light will always be a pool light, while the receptacle in the tub enclosure could easily be used at a future date to supply some other equipment. I still say let them install the tv someplace else.
So, I will respectfully agree to disagree with you.
I reread part of your post, hence this edit.
The NEC must evolve... I wholeheartedly agree. Evolving with technology and other ideas is what really makes this code/industry exciting. But evolving in a manner that will help our industry keep it's integrity and let us "steer" the boat and not let others steer it for us. This is part of what I call being proactive in the process, and feel is extremely important.
[ April 24, 2005, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
Infinity
My comment is/was general and not aimed at you.
The light fixture in the pool is not a great analogy, but I understand what you are trying to say.
IMO - the NEC has some real issues that are not easy, when first addressed, to deal with.
The pool light will always be a pool light, while the receptacle in the tub enclosure could easily be used at a future date to supply some other equipment. I still say let them install the tv someplace else.
So, I will respectfully agree to disagree with you.
I reread part of your post, hence this edit.
The NEC must evolve... I wholeheartedly agree. Evolving with technology and other ideas is what really makes this code/industry exciting. But evolving in a manner that will help our industry keep it's integrity and let us "steer" the boat and not let others steer it for us. This is part of what I call being proactive in the process, and feel is extremely important.
[ April 24, 2005, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: whirlpool in bathroom
Our local AHJ has addressed the issue of single non gfci protected receptacles in a garage simply.If not there on a final than has to be GFCI protected.Set in stone with letters to contractors and in county records, This is the unified building code area,but this one county says do it
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