White wires as travelers on 3-way

[al hildenbrand]

Re: White wires as travelers on 3-way

it still is not a factory subassembly.

Nor am I contending that NM is a factory subassembly. I absolutely agree that NM is a factory assembly. Its just not, by 334.2 a cable assembly. . .the modifier "cable" is not there.

Take a look at 800.2. The NEC uses "factory assembly" to define one or more conductors as wire. It also uses "factory assembly" to describe putting a cover over one or more conductors and defines cable.

Now, the 800.2 factory assembly of wire, used to assemble a factory assembly of cable is what is defined in 800.2. The use of the word "subassembly" would lead to a hall of mirrors, linguisticly. . .as it is in this thread. . . The point is, an assembly can be assembled from an assembly.

 

[iwire]

Re: White wires as travelers on 3-way

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:
The point is, an assembly can be assembled from an assembly.

Not by the definition you posted....

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: White wires as travelers on 3-way

Bob, which definition are you saying "not" to? Either of these?

From the 2002 NEC

800.2 Definitions.
Cable. A factory assembly of two or more conductors having an overall covering.
Wire. A factory assembly of one or more insulated conductors without an overall covering.

From the IEEE Dictionary

assembly The distinction between an assembly and a subassembly is not always exact: an assembly in one instance may be a subassembly in another where it forms a portion of an assembly.

 

[iwire]

Re: White wires as travelers on 3-way

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:
Bob, which definition are you saying "not" to? Either of these?

From the 2002 NEC

800.2 Definitions.
Cable. A factory assembly of two or more conductors having an overall covering.
Wire. A factory assembly of one or more insulated conductors without an overall covering.

From the IEEE Dictionary

assembly The distinction between an assembly and a subassembly is not always exact: an assembly in one instance may be a subassembly in another where it forms a portion of an assembly.

I addressed that already in my previous posts, only my reference was from a cable assembly that could actually be used for a switch loop.


I am done.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: White wires as travelers on 3-way

ARTICLE 100 Definitions
Scope. This article contains only those definitions essential to the proper application of this Code. It is not intended to include commonly defined general terms or commonly defined technical terms from related codes and standards. In general, only those terms that are used in two or more articles are defined in Article 100. Other definitions are included in the article in which they are used but may be referenced in Article 100.

Part I of this article contains definitions intended to apply wherever the terms are used throughout this Code. Part II contains definitions applicable only to the parts of articles specifically covering installations and equipment operating at over 600 volts, nominal.

And from the Handbook: Commonly defined general terms include those terms defined in general English language dictionaries and terms that are not used in a unique or restricted manner in the NEC. Commonly defined technical terms such as volt (abbreviated V) and ampere (abbreviated A) are found in the IEEE Standard Dictionary of Electrical and Electronic Terms. . .

"Assembly" and "assemblies" appear 352 times in the NEC (not including the Handbook). Assembly is outside of the NEC definition process. . .we are directed to go to elsewhere by the NEC.

Using the xxx.2 uses of assembly to restrict the use of installation standard 200.7 to one length of cable between a switched outlet and switch is, IMO, beyond the scope above.

 

[physis]

Re: White wires as travelers on 3-way

Are you guys still goin at it?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: White wires as travelers on 3-way

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:
Also, IMO, now that (C)(2) is no longer being seen as the reversal of 1996 200-7 Ex. 2, I say it is time to remove it. I think I'll submit a proposal to that effect.

Maybe a deletion is a little strong, just a little tweaking is in order, IMO. My question is, should it stay in 200.7 or head to 404.2?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: White wires as travelers on 3-way

Originally posted by iwire:
I am done.

I'll be along shortly.