Who has the strictest licensing requirements

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renosteinke said:
A 'national' card is very possible.
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I highly doubt it as the requirements are so different, we can't even get states to be reciprocal that are next to each other.

To give credit where it is due, the IBEW has succeeded in having their certifications recognized .... well, if there's a place that doesn't accept them, I haven't seen it.
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I don't think any New England state recognizes union certifications, union or non-union we all have to go through the same training.
 
iwire said:
I highly doubt it as the requirements are so different, we can't even get states to be reciprocal that are next to each other.



I don't think any New England state recognizes union certifications, union or non-union we all have to go through the same training.
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Same here in Michigan, and I went through the IBEW apprenticeship and had to take the same test as the non-union apprentii.
 
I have a journeymans license in Washington and Oregon. I'd have to say Washington's test is harder. And only because of the WAC! The regular NEC portion is just like Oregons but the damn WAC is terrible. I still don't know why they require this for a j-test. That should be part of the licensing for an administrater/EC/master license, etc not journeyman IMO. No one remembers this stuff, you have to look it up when you need it anyhow...?

On the other hand, I've heard the Oregon Supervisor's test is brutal and may be the toughest to pass. I think other states call it a "master electrician test."
 
Cow said:
I still don't know why they require this for a j-test. That should be part of the licensing for an administrater/EC/master license, etc not journeyman IMO. No one remembers this stuff, you have to look it up when you need it anyhow...?

"
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How else would all the people that profit from that, and are friends with the governor, make any money?
Follow the money.
 
Iwire was first, and several others followed, to say "I highly doubt it as the requirements are so different, we can't even get states to be reciprocal that are next to each other."

Sure, in the 'usual' way. That's the key to the ICC card. The ICC is not to be underrated; they're the umbrella over the IRC, UBC, UPC, and a slew of other 'model codes.' In addition, they push their 'model' administrative code.

Plenty of places are adopting these various codes. The 'ICC card' is a pretty good 'back door' into universal journeyman licensing. Local authorities still get to administer the thing, but their role is limited to collecting the money.
 
SEO said:
This was true in the past but today even if a master you will have to take an electrical contractors exam. I remember when the new licensing requirements were being talked about there was a sudden rush of masters becoming contractors to avoid the exam. Take a look at Rogers post he has a link included for state licensing requirements.
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There is a loop hole is CA's electrical 'certified journeyman' requirements ....a person doing electrical work only has to be a certified apprentice/journeyman if he is working for a C-10 [Elect. Contractor] - no licensing is required for a person doing electrical work for a General Contractor; and the state contractor's board is VERY loose with what a General is allowed to do.

For example: A General can do other trades work [plumbing, elect] as long as his work includes his trade [framing/construction] + 2 other trades......the license board allows a general contractor to pull a permit for a service upgrade only......because.....[get this].....when he cuts a hole in the roof [for a new or replacement mast] he is doing construction work....when he installs the roof jack he is performing roofing contractor work....when he paints the roof jack he is performing a painting contractors work....when he puts 2 tablespoons of stucco patch in a hole he is performing stucco contractors work....and the list goes on! If the general contractor drives a nail or installs a screw that is considered 'his' trade, 2 tablespoons of stucco patch = 2nd trade and the remaining 99% of the work can be the electrical installation.
 
in order to be fair i believe every jurisdiction should adopt a law that if you don't have the ICC master electrician certification you can't do electrical work.

like this is going to happen. :happysad:
 
Cow said:
On the other hand, I've heard the Oregon Supervisor's test is brutal and may be the toughest to pass. I think other states call it a "master electrician test."
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The Oregon Journeyman's test was pretty easy to pass. The Oregon Supervisor's test was BRUTAL. By far the toughest test I ever had the pleasure to take. They say the pass rate is around 3%. I believe it.
 
Mind you, the 'toughest' isn't necessarily going to be defined by any explicit test or rules - and can change as soon as someone retires.

For example, one guy insisted to me that he took the Chicago test many times, but never passed - and was convinced that this was only because he did not have a union card. Who knows?

More realistically, the hardest part of any of these tests is being allowed to take it. Just exactly what documments are accepted, and what weight are they given. I've seen work records dissected, with the 'board' wanting to know exactly what was done for each hour of experience submitted. Considering the rather limited scope of most contractors' businesses, it's a miracle anyone is ever allowed to take a "Masters' " exam.

In some instances this has resulted in political action. For example, in Missouri the County of St. Louis is considered 'more equal' (by state law) than all the rest when it comes to their Masters' license.

I've never found any of the actual tests - even the Oregon Masters' - to be nearly as exhaustive as Mike Holt's free test.
 
I have had the pleasure(?) of taking several of the state exams, and personally found the previous Texas Master Exam to be more difficult then the others I have taken. However, that was due to using some really poor prints as the basis for some of the questions. At least, you could comment on the questions, and all the questions with errors in the calculations (Wrong size EGC for the feeder breaker size) had comments. Florida's Electrical Contractors exam was difficult in only that they used up to 15 sources of information for the questions. I think it had a question that was "According to this book, what does this term mean?" and I didn't have that book with me, although I had 9 others. Oklahoma wasn't to bad, I scored 95% on the business portion due to being allowed the book that all the questions came from Again, simply checking the index to find the answer. I took Cedar Rapids, Iowa Masters before Iowa went state wide, as well as Michigan's Journeyman, and both of those were not too hard (89% for Iowa, 94% for Michigan).

As far as the requirements to take the exam, Michigan's is set up to deter nonresidents (by design, double digit unemployment numbers can do that) and the tougher apprentice requirements recently enacted have ended the lifetime apprentice. Florida's EC requires a pile of documentation as well as Board Approval, which seems a bit excessive. I think I got my Oklahoma Contractors maybe 2 days after I took the test, so either they are efficient with paperwork or they don't get very many people taking the test. It does amaze me the differences in state to state
 
BTW ... just to clarify one of my statements, about the hardesst part of the test was being allowed to take it ....

I've heard countless 'related trades,' everone from engineers to handymen, downplay the value of having a journeyman card by asseritng 'it's only a test.' They're quite confident that the test is no big challenge, and that they would pass it if only they were allowed to take it. A related comment is that the test is 'only' a code test.

Well, my point - if it's a bit off topic- to them is that it's not the test, but the experience that counts. You need to know how a job site operates, how buildings are put together, how to hang that transformer so that it doesn't fall down. Their complaints remind me of the eager new apprentice, who is under the delusion that our trade has something to do with electricity.

Sure, the 'job experience' requirements leave a lot to be desired. There are far too many folks with experience far too narrow. The only way to get a broad exposure is to move around - and there are plenty of factors that discourage that. If you doubt me, just imagine trying to explain to your next employer why you've had 14 jobs in two years! Even then, your experience is dictated by the jobs that come around; live near Chicago, and you've likely never even seen a plastic box or a length of Romex.

The current system has its' share of deficiencies, but I have no idea how to correct them.
 
in my experience oregon is the strictest. I Passed California's test with out studying then when i moved to oregon just to be allowed to sit for there test I had to prove that I had gone thru an approved apprenticeship. (which I had luckily i had thanks to the IBEW) even then I had to show all of the study material and letters from the BA. the journeyman test was not hard if you had a decent ability to navigate the code book . The truly hard part was getting the signing supervisors card. It required 4 years and 8000 hours as a journyman prior to sitting for it .It was the same length journeyman test as before but an hour less and on top of it a load design question that was 12 questions long that could be anything from designing a large mutlit use dwelling or and industrial plant, or an RV park or any thing in between and it covered everything from the service to the house panels , with all ground and bonding and transformers included. it was multiple choice but all of the answers reflected the common mistakes that were made so it was very easy to trick your self into thinking you got the right answer It was the hardest test I have ever taken. I have heard that the failure rate is in the 90% for first time takers.
 
Minnesota has had the Mike Holt A + rating the whole time. The last I heard the J-man pass rate after 8000 documented hours is around 10 percent. Alot of people go to reciprocal states (like North Dakota) to get there license and transfer to Minnesota. I know people that have taken the test every 6 months for 5 years and never have passed.
 
bpk said:
I know people that have taken the test every 6 months for 5 years and never have passed.
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I worked with a guy who would just "freeze up" when taking the journeyman's test. After who knows how many times, he never did pass the test. Five years later, he got completely out of the trade and when to work for McDonald's as a maintenance man. On the upside, he got free fries for life!
 
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