Who is responsible for installing seismic wires for troffers?

[buzzbar]

I'd like to get everyone's opinion on something. In a suspended T-bar ceiling with troffers, who would you say is responsible for installing the seismic wires for the troffers, the ceiling installer? Or the electrician?

Traditionally, I have always put this on the ceiling guy, but lately, it seems that I'm supposed to install them. if the ceiling is existing, I do usually install the seismic wires, but on a brand new ceiling, I like to have the ceiling guy leave a couple of loose wires at each light for me to attach to the light fixture later. They can do it a lot quicker than us, since this is really all they do!

But lately, all of my general contractors are saying, "the electrician always installs the seismic wires". I've been in the business for nearly 30 years, and my opinion is that as long as it's understood at the start of the job, it doesn't matter.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Andy

 

[John120/240]

The Electrical Contractor would be responsible IMHO. It is how you delegate-coerce the ceiling guy to install them for you.

 

[petersonra]

I would say it is the responsibility of whoever has the contract it is included in.

 

[Stormwires]

I would say it is the fixture installers' responsibility to make sure his Lts. Are properly secured, do you really want to put your license in the grid guys' hands?

 

[buzzbar]

I would say it is the fixture installers' responsibility to make sure his Lts. Are properly secured, do you really want to put your license in the grid guys' hands?

I am not talking about securing the lights to the grid, I definitely do that. I am talking about the two seismic wires that attach to opposite corners of the lights. In fact, I even attach THOSE to the lights. I am talking about who provides and installs the seismic wires to the ceiling.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I'd like to get everyone's opinion on something. In a suspended T-bar ceiling with troffers, who would you say is responsible for installing the seismic wires for the troffers, the ceiling installer? Or the electrician?

Traditionally, I have always put this on the ceiling guy, but lately, it seems that I'm supposed to install them. if the ceiling is existing, I do usually install the seismic wires, but on a brand new ceiling, I like to have the ceiling guy leave a couple of loose wires at each light for me to attach to the light fixture later. They can do it a lot quicker than us, since this is really all they do!

But lately, all of my general contractors are saying, "the electrician always installs the seismic wires". I've been in the business for nearly 30 years, and my opinion is that as long as it's understood at the start of the job, it doesn't matter.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Andy

most jobs i've been on, the ceiling guy puts two in each light fixture location, for a couple reasons....

traditionally, they always have done it......
but mainly, the guy is doing a pattern, and he doesn't want you screwing up his pattern.

at least that's what i was told by the last guy who put them in for me.

the electrician doesn't always put in the seismic wires....

what happens is the general contractor always says bullshit like that. that is what always happens.

 

[iwire]

I am not talking about securing the lights to the grid, I definitely do that. I am talking about the two seismic wires that attach to opposite corners of the lights. In fact, I even attach THOSE to the lights. I am talking about who provides and installs the seismic wires to the ceiling.

99.9% of the time we provide and install those support wires.


We even own tools like the ceiling contractor for installing them like pole mounted ramsets and 10' to 15' extension shafts for drilling in screw eyes.


Once in a great while it is contractually done by the ceiling guy.

 

[ActionDave]

Regional custom and new NEC code may play a role. Here it was never the ceiling guys job to install some extra wires but it was always easy to "tip" the guy doing the hands on work with his choice of beverage or a some cash to put them in.

Now all grid wires for lights have to be coloured or tagged in some way. Messes up the whole system those in the trenches had worked out while keeping the upper brass happy and worried about more important things, like who had smoked one extra cigarette during break.

 

[J.P.]

Used to be the ceiling guys would leave some for us. That hasn't happened on any jobs in the last 3 years I bet.

I went round and round with them and the general at first but now I just buy my own wire paint the ends and put it where I want it.

 

[buzzbar]

Used to be the ceiling guys would leave some for us. That hasn't happened on any jobs in the last 3 years I bet.

I went round and round with them and the general at first but now I just buy my own wire paint the ends and put it where I want it.

This seems to be the consensus nowadays. Several years ago, it was commonplace (at least in my area) for the ceiling guy to install these wires, and leave them hanging for me to attach to the lights. I'm just really surprised how it seems to have changed, and the reaction that the generals give me when I exclude this from my bids. I have been forced to include this in my pricing now. I guess we can expect to start installing the grid itself in the future!!

Thanks for all of the input.

Andy

 

[qcroanoke]

I would say it is the responsibility of whoever has the contract it is included in.

Something I would find out. Two wires shot in the concrete per light could add up quick.

 

[buzzbar]

Something I would find out. Two wires shot in the concrete per light could add up quick.

Agreed. I would prefer to leave this to the grid guy, especially when it's an all new grid. They just plow through, and get it done much quicker.

Having said all of this, what would you guys charge PER fixture to install two wires a each light, assuming a concrete ceiling roughly 12-15' above floor?

 

[cadpoint]

3 minutes for 2 shoots that's 120 shoots/ hour = 60 lights and that's getting it.

I'd look into renting a gun with pole, buy all the shoots and hangers.

Put your lowest man on it, anyone else your'll pay their man charge and markup per hour.

 

[iwire]

This seems to be the consensus nowadays. Several years ago, it was commonplace (at least in my area) for the ceiling guy to install these wires, and leave them hanging for me to attach to the lights. I'm just really surprised how it seems to have changed, and the reaction that the generals give me when I exclude this from my bids. I have been forced to include this in my pricing now. I guess we can expect to start installing the grid itself in the future!!

Thanks for all of the input.

Andy

I am baffled why you think another trade should install your supports.:?

 

[iwire]

Something I would find out. Two wires shot in the concrete per light could add up quick.

We did a job where the specifications called for four supports on each fixture.

We burned up at least two pole mounted ramsets.

 

[buzzbar]

I am baffled why you think another trade should install your supports.:?

Because this is the way it always has been done (in my area), until recently. Also, I'm not saying the grid guy should attach them to the fixture, just provide the wire from the ceiling. The grid guy never touches the light.

Are you saying, iwire, that given the choice, you would PREFER to install the seismic wires to the ceiling? Rather than have the grid guy do it?

 

[MSEI]

We always supply and install our own wires. Paint the ends our color so nobody else uses them.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Like I always say, it didn't require any extra wires until you put the fixtures up there, so why should the ceiling installer be responsible?

 

[buzzbar]

Like I always say, it didn't require any extra wires until you put the fixtures up there, so why should the ceiling installer be responsible?

On an existing ceiling, I always install them, shouldn't be the ceiling guy's deal. On a brand new grid though, give it to the ceiling guy. No brainer in my book.

BUT, I'm starting to see that most of you guys DO install the seismic wires. Okay, I get that. But let me ask this: If you were given the choice, would YOU rather install the seismic wires? OR have the ceiling guy install them?

Please explain your answer.

 

[iwire]

I would rather stay home and collect a check for doing nothing.


Let me ask this, 2x2 and 2x4 fixtures drop into the grid and take the place of ceiling tiles. That being the case shouldn't the ceiling guy have to unbox and place them into the grid?