Who's "bright" idea was that?

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Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

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NC & IN
So we go to trim out the building. The customer brings all these lights to mount with dimmers in the walls. Well, it turns out these lights require two additional wires for the dimmer. 1-10 Volt dimmers. No neutral, just two more wires that we have to figure out how to get it to the wall dimmer. It's a Lutron 0-10 volt dimmer.
The lights have two additional wires and so does the dimmer. No attic no crawl space.
Couldn't Lutron just stay with the same design?
 
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you don't specify how many lights buts it sounds like more than you want to deal with to comply with what the costumer brought to the building.
As frustrating as it is, I would ask the customer to replace the lights and dimmers with something that is compatible with what is there.
 
Buck Parrish said:
Yep, six dimmers. no neutral.
Click to expand...
I think if the specs are for 0-10 volt dimming you don't even need to bring the neutral to the switch box, since that is the dimmer and no neutral is needed. Regardless though when you say "trim out" does that mean you roughed it? If no one made you aware of needing extra wires you shouldn't be responsible for them.
 
do like many electrical outfits do in new resi builds when sheetrock goes on before electrical guy finishes his work, slice open the rock, add your wires, then sheetrock guys have to come fix the rock.
 
Buck Parrish said:
So we go to trim out the building. The customer brings all these lights to mount with dimmers in the walls. Well, it turns out these lights require two additional wires for the dimmer. 1-10 Volt dimmers. No neutral, just two more wires that we have to figure out how to get it to the wall dimmer. It's a Lutron 0-10 volt dimmer.
The lights have two additional wires and so does the dimmer. No attic no crawl space.
Couldn't Lutron just stay with the same design?
Click to expand...

diml2_wiring_diagram.jpg


If your customer did not request 0-10 wiring, s/he can pay for the upgrade , or return the lights

~RJ~
 
Buck Parrish said:
So we go to trim out the building. The customer brings all these lights to mount with dimmers in the walls. Well, it turns out these lights require two additional wires for the dimmer. 1-10 Volt dimmers. No neutral, just two more wires that we have to figure out how to get it to the wall dimmer. It's a Lutron 0-10 volt dimmer.
The lights have two additional wires and so does the dimmer. No attic no crawl space.
Couldn't Lutron just stay with the same design?
Click to expand...

lutron wireless 0-10 controls. occupancy, daylight harvesting, dimming. works well.

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/3672532_0_10V_Solutions Brochure.pdf
 
This is a huge issue nowadays. Many LED drivers come equipped with 0-10v dimming regardless of whether it is needed. Plans will show a dimmer on the wall and no notes or even worse, a generic (Provide all control wires required). The only way to know if the dimming is 0-10 or triac is to Google the fixture part number, go through the entire spec sheet and figure out how the fixture dims. I see it on almost every job I bid.
 
Here's a trick with a single 0-10v dimming fixture. You don't need an expensive dimmer. You can mount a 1/2w 100K pot (variable resistor) to a blank plate and just connect the two LV wires to the center and one of the end terminals. This won't work on most multiple fixtures, some cases it will!

As for code, no this is hardly a listed dimmer but consider it's low voltage application and if in it's own dedicated box with a dedicated cable, that may not come under the NEC.

Why, well I have done this for "set and forget" applications where LED panels have been too bright but have a internal 0-10 dimmer option. You just mount the pot by the fixture in a hidden location
 
Andy Delle said:
Here's a trick with a single 0-10v dimming fixture. You don't need an expensive dimmer. You can mount a 1/2w 100K pot (variable resistor) to a blank plate and just connect the two LV wires to the center and one of the end terminals. This won't work on most multiple fixtures, some cases it will!

As for code, no this is hardly a listed dimmer but consider it's low voltage application and if in it's own dedicated box with a dedicated cable, that may not come under the NEC.

Why, well I have done this for "set and forget" applications where LED panels have been too bright but have a internal 0-10 dimmer option. You just mount the pot by the fixture in a hidden location
Click to expand...
I recently installed several LED hi bays, replacing old 400 watt MH luminaires. One of them was really dim after turning them on. Went to check it out, factory apparently tied the dimmer leads together instead of leaving them capped like all the others were. I would presume shorting those leads togethergave it the "0" end of the 0-10 v input range and it was dimmed as much as it can be dimmed. Took that connection apart and capped both leads and it was as bright as the other luminaires.
 
kwired said:
I recently installed several LED hi bays, replacing old 400 watt MH luminaires. One of them was really dim after turning them on. Went to check it out, factory apparently tied the dimmer leads together instead of leaving them capped like all the others were. I would presume shorting those leads togethergave it the "0" end of the 0-10 v input range and it was dimmed as much as it can be dimmed. Took that connection apart and capped both leads and it was as bright as the other luminaires.
Click to expand...

shorting the purple and gray together is the quick and dirty test for your dimmable lights
if you don't have a lighting panel or dimming controls in place. as all i do any more is drive
around and watch lights not work correctly it seems, before i go off to do a certification, i
get the electrician who wired the occupancy on the phone and ASK if he's tested the lights
this way...

me: have you actually TESTED the lights?

sparky: everything is wired good.

me: what does that mean?

sparky: they are all on.

me: have you tried dimming them?

sparky:

me:

sparky: how do you do that?

me: short the purple and gray wires together. do they dim? go try it now, while we are on the phone.

sparky: some of them do. the other lights must be broken.

me: the lights are most likely ok. the wiring is open, missing, or reversed. it's gotta work before the lights can be certified.

sparky:

me:

sparky: the lights are in a hard ceiling. what do i do now?

me: suicide is an option. have you considered it yet?
 
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