Who's coming with me? (TR receptacles)

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peter d

peter d

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New England
For the record, I think the new TR receptacle requirement is a good code rule and within the bounds of the NEC purpose. I'm on record on the forum as speaking out against it, however, I've changed my mind recently and I support the new rule.

That said, I think a blanket provision requiring ALL receptacles in a dwelling unit is a little bit absurd, so I'd like to propose some changes to the rule. Are tamper resistance receptacles really needed everywhere? I don't think so.

So I'm proposing a code change to eliminate the TR receptacle requirement for the following locations:

-Behind appliances (refrigerator, stove, under the sink for the disposal and DW)
-Counter tops (in any location)
-Garages (including the one of the ceiling for the GDO)
-unfinished basements
-tool sheds and other outbuildings
-outdoor receptacles
-any receptacle location above......let's say 4'....maybe more??

Substantiation: It should be self-explanatory, but I still need to come up with something.

I've never written a code change proposal but I'd like to give it a try.
 
I was very much against it when I first heard about it, once I read the substantiation I came to realize the NFPA would have been wrong to ignore the issue.

Now that said I see no reason to make another confusing code section, just say all of them and be done with it.
 
I tend to agree with Bob ( I'm getting my brownie points now). Carrying more stock on the truck-- the price will drop and it is so much easier to just do them all.
 
I think if they are going to require tamper resistant receptacles, the least they could do is require that they are either painted with lead based paint or constructed from some type of toxic material.
 
peter d said:
I think a blanket provision requiring ALL receptacles in a dwelling unit is a little bit absurd, so I'd like to propose some changes to the rule. Are tamper resistance receptacles really needed everywhere? I don't think so.
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Peter, whether I like TR receps or not is of little consequence. Fact is, they are going to be apart of my life, so I better get used to them. That said, common sense should apply. It seems ridiculous to install TR's on all outlets. However, there is always going to be that 3 yr old future DIY'er that can climb up and poke something into an outlet, or find some other way to hurt themselves. Nothing is fool proof.

So, bottom line - I say go for it! :smile:
 
stickboy1375 said:
Sorry, I only do residential, so it would be a burden for me.
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I do a little of both and a lot of nothing, sometimes.

My other problem is, that we work in multiple jurisdictions on different code cycles, so I'm gonna have to pack around both anyway.
 
peter d said:
For the record, I think the new TR receptacle requirement is a good code rule and within the bounds of the NEC purpose. I'm on record on the forum as speaking out against it, however, I've changed my mind recently and I support the new rule.
.
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(In my best John Kerry accent) -

"Hello America, I'm PeterD. And I want you to know, that before I voted for tamper-resistant receptacles, I actually voted against them. We just didn't have all the facts at the time. But now I've voted for tamper resistant receptacles, and will not vote against them."


I think I'm w/ you and would rather just put them everywhere. BTW, are they going to make TR gfci's???

edit-- ------------------------------------ n/m. I'm actually not w/ you at all. I'm totally against you. YOU want the exclusions. I'll do whatever the code says I gotta do, just don't make it too confusing for me. Its hard enough trying to find a helper that can actually put a receptacle in correctly, now he's gotta remember which type to put where? man oh man.
 
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I say resi, all or nothing....I just returned all the repectacles I had to my supplier and bough all TR. Really no big deal.

Great John Kerry reference. :D



They make TR everything and it is all available. Not at Big Blue or Ugly orange, but why would they ever be up to speed on anyting? :roll:
 
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I suspect I have bought the last of non TR recepts for us. It will just hinge on when the suppliers start stocking them, not so much on when enforcement starts. Putting a vom lead direclty into them will be a real PID. Good thing I haven't thrown out all of those little grey cheaters.
 
As far as the substantiation, I realize that children are getting blasted. They are also getting burned on stoves, falling down stairs (at even a greater rate than their incidents with receptacles) and some of those injuries are more serious than the results from receptacles.

I wonder what happened to parenting???? Yes, I have 3 children, so I know just what it is to be a responsible parent.
I am curious if the accident reports have a question for the parents: "where were you when your child got blasted... were you watching?"


For all those who say they do not want big brother telling us what to do, this is a perfect example of that.

What about all of those houses that will be occupied by families without children...they should have to put in TR-receptacles?

Guess how I feel about this topic? :wink:

The NFPA is honorable, but should not become our "big brother" and/or parent!

This, like other proposals passed, reeks of manufacturers getting too involved (Hint - their bottom line) in the NEC processs.
 
electricmanscott said:
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They make TR everything and it is all available. Not at Big Blue or Ugly orange, but why would they ever be up to speed on anyting? :roll:
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Gotta admit,that's the first time I've heard those nicknames .... They are both so appropriate too .

Carl :)
 
i'm firmly against tr receptacles bring code....darwinism has served us well for thousands of years...now that we continuously protect the inept from themselves, look at what's happening to society...down with code required tr receptacles......
 
I will now stand and shake your hand..nicely siad..I can install any type of outlet you want but to be told that I have to because some parent was to busy screwing around to pay attention to their kids is bull..I personally have them in my house have gotten use to them but still think they are pain..I hate it when we are told what to do by the minority not the majority..we are victims of our own system..can anyone share the substantiation use to make this regulation as I have not read it..to be honest I have never known anyone who has even been on a code panel..Until frequenting here I have never had the privilage..So I can whine but to no avail so thanks for listening to our rants..
 
Pierre ,
I don't see why the TR's are causing such a problem ... whenever you plug a legitimate appliance in , both or all 3 prongs are inserted at the same time thereby causing no resistance or cause to argue about it. No more trouble than having to hold open a spring assissted outdoor GFCI cover to plug in a cord & they're both safety related items.

Carl
 
It is the process of how and who provided the proposal to the NFPA to have this installed in the NEC.
I was at a very large public meeting, and NEMA and their reps were pushing this in such a huge way.
Look who put the proposal for AFCI expansion...
I could go on, but it is a waste of my time.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
It is the process of how and who provided the proposal to the NFPA to have this installed in the NEC.
I was at a very large public meeting, and NEMA and their reps were pushing this in such a huge way.
Look who put the proposal for AFCI expansion...
I could go on, but it is a waste of my time.
Click to expand...

I'm sure NEMA was involved , but installing a TR versus a non TR receptacle doesn't make a big time difference & thier to keep kids & idiots safe .

Carl :rolleyes:
 
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