Why 20 amp circuits?

[sameguy]

I have seen breakers trip on the 20 amp small appliance circuits when people pug to many items into a 20 amp circuit.

I see nothing at all wrong with requiring a minimum of 2 ea. 20 amp small appliance circuits.

You do know that there are one heck of a lot more Canadians living in the USA than there are Americans living in Canada.

"You do know that there are one heck of a lot more Canadians living in the USA than there are Americans living in Canada."
?so we talking extension cords, or they get fewer openings because they are Canadian?

 

[kwired]

FWIW, I typically run 12 AWG on 20 amp circuits to nearly all receptacle outlets, at least on new construction. Existing work I will usually run 14 AWG when extending an existing 15 amp circuit.

They can remove 20 amp requirements if they want and I wouldn't care but at same time better not eliminate the option to use 20 amp circuits.

 

[jaggedben]

In a Canadian kitchen You need at least 5 dedicated circuits. (Not including a range)
1 for fridge
1 for microwave (not a countertop one, only if the cabinets have a spot for one)
1 for dishwasher
at least two for countertop/ island/ peninsula receptacles ( depends on how many you have, no more than two outlets per circuit, can be 2 single 20’s, or 2 split 15’s)

nothing else can be connected to those so another circuit is needed for lighting, hood fan and any wall receptacles



other dedicated circuits required

1 for laundry room(dryers are typically 240 volt also on a dedicated circuit)
1 for utility room
1 for a central vacuum
1 for garage ( electric vehicle separate )
1 for outside receptacles

So in other words, Canada allows 15A circuits but requires more of them for separate appliances. Seems like six-of-one, half a dozen of the other. Seems like both codes could allow more flexibility.

 

[Carultch]

To mess with apprentices by telling them they can put 15a receptacles on them. :lol:

A 15A receptacle is allowed on 20A circuits, because it is rated to carry 20A among the rest of the receptacles in the same circuit. The 15A rating refers to the fact that it is only rated to deliver 15A to its own local loads.

 

[growler]

What gets more interesting is the systems in Europe. I have a choice of 20 amp or 32 amp for radials... to feed my outlets.
Both are for 13 amp max fused plugs.
both require a minimum of 2.5 mm wire which is the equivalent of around 14 gauge according to many web sites.

I think the correct wire size for a 32 amp radial circuit is 4 mm.

www.mybuilder.com/questions/v/3027/is-a-radial-circuit-on-32a-breaker-a-fire-risk

I think a 4 mm is similar to our #10.

 

[Carultch]

I think the correct wire size for a 32 amp radial circuit is 4 mm.

www.mybuilder.com/questions/v/3027/is-a-radial-circuit-on-32a-breaker-a-fire-risk

I think a 4 mm is similar to our #10.

More like #12. 6 mm^2 is the equivalent to our #10, without going under.

 

[growler]

I think the correct wire size for a 32 amp radial circuit is 4 mm.

www.mybuilder.com/questions/v/3027/is-a-radial-circuit-on-32a-breaker-a-fire-risk

I think a 4 mm is similar to our #10.

What gets more interesting is the systems in Europe. I have a choice of 20 amp or 32 amp for radials... to feed my outlets.
Both are for 13 amp max fused plugs.
both require a minimum of 2.5 mm wire which is the equivalent of around 14 gauge according to many web sites. I can put unlimited outlets on each.

More like #12. 6 mm^2 is the equivalent to our #10, without going under.

I'm was saying that 4 mm is similar to our #10 as far as over current protection required.

And in their case it would be required by BS7671.

I think the insulation may be the reason it's allowed. I have worked with their wire and it's normally stranded with a different insulation than ours.

 

[mbrooke]

I have seen breakers trip on the 20 amp small appliance circuits when people pug to many items into a 20 amp circuit.

I see nothing at all wrong with requiring a minimum of 2 ea. 20 amp small appliance circuits.

You do know that there are one heck of a lot more Canadians living in the USA than there are Americans living in Canada.

Well, I'd argue thats more politics and restrictive laws then popping breakers.

 

[mbrooke]

So in other words, Canada allows 15A circuits but requires more of them for separate appliances. Seems like six-of-one, half a dozen of the other. Seems like both codes could allow more flexibility.

My thoughts exactly :happyyes:


Both codes have shown there is no harm in having unlimited receptacles or 15 amps to the washer/garage.

 

[mbrooke]

I think the correct wire size for a 32 amp radial circuit is 4 mm.

www.mybuilder.com/questions/v/3027/is-a-radial-circuit-on-32a-breaker-a-fire-risk

I think a 4 mm is similar to our #10.

You would be correct, 4mm would typically be used.


#10 is 3.31mm2

I'm was saying that 4 mm is similar to our #10 as far as over current protection required.

And in their case it would be required by BS7671.

I think the insulation may be the reason it's allowed. I have worked with their wire and it's normally stranded with a different insulation than ours.

FWIW the wire ampacity is determined by the "installation method". Meaning if the wire has fiberglass around it the rating drops almost by half as apposed to no insulation.



http://www.batt.co.uk/upload/files/currentratingstable4d5_1312876143.pdf


As an example 2.5mm2 which is slightly larger then #14 (2.08mm2) is rated 13.5amps in an insulated wall, but 27 amps if tacked directly to say a basement joist.

One reason for 2.5mm2 being rated less then 2.08mm2 is Twin and earth uses 70*C insulation, where our NM has 90*C wires.

 

[LarryFine]

FWIW, I typically run 12 AWG on 20 amp circuits to nearly all receptacle outlets, at least on new construction.

Same here, and usually for the same reasons as kitchens and for commercial work. It's common to turn on all of the lights to vacuum, which is a sure-fire recipe to trip a 15a breaker.

Also, one 20a receptacle circuit and one 15a lighting circuit can supply more square footage than a pair of 15a circuits, and perform better. No dimming lights when turning on the TV.

 

[Gary11734]

Why does the code require 20amp circuits in homes?


Reason I ask is because in Canada everything is number #14 including the SABC, bathroom and laundry circuit with no reports of tripping. Second there are no NEMA 5-20p cord caps in residential.


Just seems weird that code would dictate design.

When did we start using Canada as the go-to on how to do things

 

[mopowr steve]

When did we start using Canada as the go-to on how to do things

When we started going there to buy prescriptions much cheaper.

 

[peter d]

In a Canadian kitchen You need at least 5 dedicated circuits. (Not including a range)
1 for fridge
1 for microwave (not a countertop one, only if the cabinets have a spot for one)
1 for dishwasher
at least two for countertop/ island/ peninsula receptacles ( depends on how many you have, no more than two outlets per circuit, can be 2 single 20’s, or 2 split 15’s)

nothing else can be connected to those so another circuit is needed for lighting, hood fan and any wall receptacles



other dedicated circuits required

1 for laundry room(dryers are typically 240 volt also on a dedicated circuit)
1 for utility room
1 for a central vacuum
1 for garage ( electric vehicle separate )
1 for outside receptacles

Nothing unreasonable about that, I would gladly adopt that over the NEC requirements. :thumbsup:

 

[sameguy]

When we started going there to buy prescriptions much cheaper.

Cheaper because the U.S.A. subsidizes the world on pharmaceuticals.

 

[peter d]

When did we start using Canada as the go-to on how to do things

Well, since they are an advanced nation with very close ties to the United States and a very similar electrical system, we can certainly learn from them.

 

[Gary11734]

Well, since they are an advanced nation with very close ties to the United States and a very similar electrical system, we can certainly learn from them.

On 20 amp circuits? OK, I got ya.

I believe they should raise their 15 amp circuits to 20's. I wonder if they will listen? lol

Analogies never work. This is one of them. I wonder if they allow common neutrals without straps! Now that I would be interested in...

 

[mbrooke]

When did we start using Canada as the go-to on how to do things

The greatest advances in AI, medicine and neuro science is coming out of Canada. I think we should pay attention.

 

[Gary11734]

The greatest advances in AI, medicine and neuro science is coming out of Canada. I think we should pay attention.

It's a joke, GUYS!

I thought they had some great comedians, too. Well, I thought!

Anything else we need to know about how great Canada is?

I know we love them in Miami. They spend millions down here in the winter. And we always know who to go up and thank since they all wear white socks and sandals on the beach!

 

[mbrooke]

It's a joke, GUYS!

I thought they had some great comedians, too. Well, I thought!

Anything else we need to know about how great Canada is?

I know we love them in Miami. They spend millions down here in the winter. And we always know who to go up and thank since they all wear white socks and sandals on the beach!

No joke, they are contributing to the world. I want to post a vid on AI, but I will keep the mods happy and keep the thread on topic.