Copperclad
Member
- Location
- Merritt Island, FL USA
Does anyone know the reason those the cheesy plastic orange plugs are now in all flour. troffers, and why this came about?
why disc. for flour. lighting?
- Thread starter Copperclad
- Start date
- Status
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Because ballasts were frequently being changed out live and there was a trail of dead bodies to support a change to the NEC.
I have heard that for any code change there has to be a trail of dead bodies or is it a trail of money?? I am not sure.
- Location
- Massachusetts
18-93 Log #3421 NEC-P18Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
(410-79)
Final Action: Reject
TCC Action: Reject
It was the action of the Technical Correlating Committee that this Proposal be reported as "Reject" because less than
two-thirds of the members eligible to vote have voted in the affirmative.
(410-79)
Final Action: Reject
TCC Action: Reject
It was the action of the Technical Correlating Committee that this Proposal be reported as "Reject" because less than
two-thirds of the members eligible to vote have voted in the affirmative.
Submitter:
Danny Liggett Newark, DE
Recommendation:
Add the following to 410.79:
"In other than dwellings and associated outbuildings, luminaires containing ballasts shall have a disconnect switch to open all
ungrounded ballast supply conductors.
Substantiation:
Changing the ballast out in a luminaire while the circuit feeding the luminaire is energized has become a regular practice. There are
several reasons for this. The circuit may not be identified correctly or at all. When the circuit is de-energized the room becomes dark.
The circuit may feed a large area and would create interruptions of the work in the area. In a case brought before a labor board of a
terminated electrician, the labor board reversed the termination based upon changing a ballast out on a luminaire while energized as
being a standard industry practice. This brings this issue to a new level. As long as this is perceived as an acceptable practice, then
progress in electrical safety will be slowed. Work practices alone will not change the electrical safety culture. Standards Making
Organizations such as the NEC must provide equipment requirements that safeguard individuals who are exposed to the hazards of
electricity while maintaining that equipment.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Add a new 410.73(G) to read:
410.73 (G) Disconnecting Means. In other than dwellings and associated accessory structures, luminaires containing ballast(s) shall
have a disconnecting means that will open all ungrounded ballast(s) supply conductors. The line side terminals of the disconnecting
means shall be guarded. The disconnecting means shall be located so as to be accessible to qualified persons before servicing or
maintaining the ballast. This requirement shall become effective January 1, 2008
Exception No. 1: A disconnecting means shall not be required for luminaries fixtures installed in hazardous (classified) location(s) as
defined in Article 500.
Exception No. 2: A disconnecting means shall not be required for fluorescent exit luminaires (fixtures).
Exception No. 3: For cord-and-plug connected luminaires, an accessible separable connector or an accessible plug and receptacle shall
be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means.
Panel Statement:
The panel agrees with the concept presented by the submitter for a local disconnecting means at the luminaire for maintenance and
servicing of the ballast. The panel has made several revisions to the proposal as follows:
1. The panel has revised the first sentence of the proposal that made the requirement applicable to " unclassified. indoor locations in
other than dwelling and related outbuilding occupancies." The revised wording removes the reference to "unclassified locations" and
replaces the reference with a new Exception No. 1. The panel understands that there may be hazardous classified location in which the
operation of a disconnecting means could create a greater hazard and the use of the exception adds clarity to the requirement.
2. The panel has also removed the reference to "indoor locations" because the location of the luminaire should not impact the
application of the provision.
3. The panel replaced the term "disconnect switch" with "disconnecting means" because "disconnecting means" is a defined term in
Article 100 and will not limit the device to a switch only. The required disconnecting means can be a device, or group of devices, or other
means by which the conductors of a circuit can be disconnected from their source of supply. This will permit the utilization of many
different types of components to accomplish the requirement.
4. The last sentence was revised to clarify that the location of the disconnecting means must be so located so that it is accessible to
qualified persons before examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance of the luminaire. This should permit a wide range of
locations based on the specific design of the luminaire.
5. The panel has added a new exception No. 2 to clarify that a disconnecting means is not required for fluorescent exit luminaire
(fixture).
6. The panel has added a new exception No. 3 to clarify that a disconnecting means is not required where the luminaire is cord and plug
connected as permitted in 410.30(C).
7. The panel has relocated the provision to a new Section 410.73(G) because the proposed section (410.79) is limited to switches and
was not in Part I, General.
8. An effective date was added that allows for adequate time for manufacturers and users to prepare for implementation of this
requirement.
Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results:
Add the following to 410.79:
"In other than dwellings and associated outbuildings, luminaires containing ballasts shall have a disconnect switch to open all
ungrounded ballast supply conductors.
Substantiation:
Changing the ballast out in a luminaire while the circuit feeding the luminaire is energized has become a regular practice. There are
several reasons for this. The circuit may not be identified correctly or at all. When the circuit is de-energized the room becomes dark.
The circuit may feed a large area and would create interruptions of the work in the area. In a case brought before a labor board of a
terminated electrician, the labor board reversed the termination based upon changing a ballast out on a luminaire while energized as
being a standard industry practice. This brings this issue to a new level. As long as this is perceived as an acceptable practice, then
progress in electrical safety will be slowed. Work practices alone will not change the electrical safety culture. Standards Making
Organizations such as the NEC must provide equipment requirements that safeguard individuals who are exposed to the hazards of
electricity while maintaining that equipment.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Add a new 410.73(G) to read:
410.73 (G) Disconnecting Means. In other than dwellings and associated accessory structures, luminaires containing ballast(s) shall
have a disconnecting means that will open all ungrounded ballast(s) supply conductors. The line side terminals of the disconnecting
means shall be guarded. The disconnecting means shall be located so as to be accessible to qualified persons before servicing or
maintaining the ballast. This requirement shall become effective January 1, 2008
Exception No. 1: A disconnecting means shall not be required for luminaries fixtures installed in hazardous (classified) location(s) as
defined in Article 500.
Exception No. 2: A disconnecting means shall not be required for fluorescent exit luminaires (fixtures).
Exception No. 3: For cord-and-plug connected luminaires, an accessible separable connector or an accessible plug and receptacle shall
be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means.
Panel Statement:
The panel agrees with the concept presented by the submitter for a local disconnecting means at the luminaire for maintenance and
servicing of the ballast. The panel has made several revisions to the proposal as follows:
1. The panel has revised the first sentence of the proposal that made the requirement applicable to " unclassified. indoor locations in
other than dwelling and related outbuilding occupancies." The revised wording removes the reference to "unclassified locations" and
replaces the reference with a new Exception No. 1. The panel understands that there may be hazardous classified location in which the
operation of a disconnecting means could create a greater hazard and the use of the exception adds clarity to the requirement.
2. The panel has also removed the reference to "indoor locations" because the location of the luminaire should not impact the
application of the provision.
3. The panel replaced the term "disconnect switch" with "disconnecting means" because "disconnecting means" is a defined term in
Article 100 and will not limit the device to a switch only. The required disconnecting means can be a device, or group of devices, or other
means by which the conductors of a circuit can be disconnected from their source of supply. This will permit the utilization of many
different types of components to accomplish the requirement.
4. The last sentence was revised to clarify that the location of the disconnecting means must be so located so that it is accessible to
qualified persons before examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance of the luminaire. This should permit a wide range of
locations based on the specific design of the luminaire.
5. The panel has added a new exception No. 2 to clarify that a disconnecting means is not required for fluorescent exit luminaire
(fixture).
6. The panel has added a new exception No. 3 to clarify that a disconnecting means is not required where the luminaire is cord and plug
connected as permitted in 410.30(C).
7. The panel has relocated the provision to a new Section 410.73(G) because the proposed section (410.79) is limited to switches and
was not in Part I, General.
8. An effective date was added that allows for adequate time for manufacturers and users to prepare for implementation of this
requirement.
Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results:
Affirmative: 6 Negative: 5
ItsHot
Senior Member
- Location
- A little piece of heaven!
reminder
reminder
Just a reminder that I have said before. There has been a couple of times that I was installing 2x4 layins that had the disconnect plastic plugs that had exposed wire strands sticking outside of the plugs/disconnects!! be careful!!!!
reminder
Just a reminder that I have said before. There has been a couple of times that I was installing 2x4 layins that had the disconnect plastic plugs that had exposed wire strands sticking outside of the plugs/disconnects!!
be careful!!!!
- Location
- Massachusetts
Explanation of Negative:
BER: Although this proposal could provide some desirable results from the standpoint of maintenance convenience, the extensive
ramifications from an installation and manufactured concern require additional investigation. Can manufacturers provide a disconnect
feature that would be effective and yet not escalate the cost of these luminaries to the point where every job would feel a dramatic
impact? Can this disconnect be accomplished with a simple plug type arrangement?
LARSON: See my Explanation of Negative on Proposal 18-92 (Log #1780).
O'BOYLE: The addition of a disconnect switch on every electric discharge luminaire is a far too extreme way of addressing unsafe work
practice. There are no clear classifications that distinguish commercial from noncommercial luminaires. Accordingly, there is no way to
BER: Although this proposal could provide some desirable results from the standpoint of maintenance convenience, the extensive
ramifications from an installation and manufactured concern require additional investigation. Can manufacturers provide a disconnect
feature that would be effective and yet not escalate the cost of these luminaries to the point where every job would feel a dramatic
impact? Can this disconnect be accomplished with a simple plug type arrangement?
LARSON: See my Explanation of Negative on Proposal 18-92 (Log #1780).
O'BOYLE: The addition of a disconnect switch on every electric discharge luminaire is a far too extreme way of addressing unsafe work
practice. There are no clear classifications that distinguish commercial from noncommercial luminaires. Accordingly, there is no way to
predetermine if a luminaire will be used in a dwelling or in a commercial space. This proposal will, therefore, require disconnects on a
large number of luminaires that will be installed in locations were turning off power before service is not an issue. If commercial site
conditions require replacing ballasts without first de-energizing the branch circuit, appropriate protective equipment is available to
reduce the risks involved. Alternatively, disconnect means could be considered in the design of the installation to preclude dark rooms.
Disconnects are typically separate from the equipment they control.
ROSENBAUM: Requiring the addition of a disconnect means to the vast majority of electric discharge luminaires to accommodate
unsafe working practices is not justified. The proposal does not address the unsafe working practice of opening the grounded
conductor while the circuit is energized. Qualified persons should turn off power at the panelboard or wear the appropriate personal
protective equipment when servicing ballasts.
WALL: Wearing PPE prevents most of these accidents and injuries. It is obvious that the electricians are not wearing their PPE as
required by OSHA and NFPA 70E in the situation as described by the submitter.
conditions require replacing ballasts without first de-energizing the branch circuit, appropriate protective equipment is available to
reduce the risks involved. Alternatively, disconnect means could be considered in the design of the installation to preclude dark rooms.
Disconnects are typically separate from the equipment they control.
ROSENBAUM: Requiring the addition of a disconnect means to the vast majority of electric discharge luminaires to accommodate
unsafe working practices is not justified. The proposal does not address the unsafe working practice of opening the grounded
conductor while the circuit is energized. Qualified persons should turn off power at the panelboard or wear the appropriate personal
protective equipment when servicing ballasts.
WALL: Wearing PPE prevents most of these accidents and injuries. It is obvious that the electricians are not wearing their PPE as
required by OSHA and NFPA 70E in the situation as described by the submitter.
Comment on Affirmative:
COSTELLO: I am in support of Proposal 18-93. This change in the code will add a level of safety to a situation that is costing the
safety and lives of electrical workers. Each day electrical workers are placed in a work environment were it has become "common
practice" to service a ballast in a luminarie while it is energized. Reasons vary from improperly or unmarked disconnecting devices,
having to work in an area that is poorly or not illuminated at all, to complaints of interrupting the workers of an area. Each of these
scenarios may create a different hazard to those workers.
By placing a disconnecting means that will open all ungrounded ballast(s) supply conductors of a luminarie, the potential of a
hazardous situation from contact with the ungrounded conductor while servicing a luminarie will be eliminated. While this action alone
will not address all of the of the hazards presented in servicing luminaries i.e., the opening of grounded conductors in a multiwire branch
circuit, it will be a major accomplishment in the safeguarding of persons. Perhaps the Panel should take an even bolder step by taking
action to ensure that both the ungrounded conductor and the grounded conductor are disconnected at the luminaire. This will ensure
COSTELLO: I am in support of Proposal 18-93. This change in the code will add a level of safety to a situation that is costing the
safety and lives of electrical workers. Each day electrical workers are placed in a work environment were it has become "common
practice" to service a ballast in a luminarie while it is energized. Reasons vary from improperly or unmarked disconnecting devices,
having to work in an area that is poorly or not illuminated at all, to complaints of interrupting the workers of an area. Each of these
scenarios may create a different hazard to those workers.
By placing a disconnecting means that will open all ungrounded ballast(s) supply conductors of a luminarie, the potential of a
hazardous situation from contact with the ungrounded conductor while servicing a luminarie will be eliminated. While this action alone
will not address all of the of the hazards presented in servicing luminaries i.e., the opening of grounded conductors in a multiwire branch
circuit, it will be a major accomplishment in the safeguarding of persons. Perhaps the Panel should take an even bolder step by taking
action to ensure that both the ungrounded conductor and the grounded conductor are disconnected at the luminaire. This will ensure
that the grounded conductor on multiwire branch circuits won't pose an additional hazard to the worker servicing the luminaire
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Copperclad
Member
- Location
- Merritt Island, FL USA
Very informative reading Thanks all!
ItsHot
Senior Member
- Location
- A little piece of heaven!
Copperclad
Member
- Location
- Merritt Island, FL USA
Jason, I think the object is to be able to disconnect the power to a ballast for replacement. I suppose you can still have a "hot" coming in and leaving the fixture. I think?
Yeah I guess I should have just made a tap with a whip to the fixture. The "disconnect" had only a place for one wire.
billdozier
Senior Member
- Location
- gulf coast
Is it really that difficult to uncap the hot, neutral wire and ground and cap them back off individually to change out a ballest. Im not going let a greenie do it but every truck has at least one electrician on it who has done this in the past.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Without going overboard I will just mention we are not supposed to be doing hot work.
I hope you have more than one wire going to the fixture. You need at least two.
Or do you mean more than one set of wires? If so, do the other sets go to that fixture or do the pass through to another fixture? Some fluorescents have more than one supply line (split switched) or constant power for an e-light ballast.
If they go to that fixture, then they would also need a disconnect. If they pass through, they do not.
sparkyway
Member
- Location
- South Central Ky
When the flourescents required these cliped connectors, I picked up a box at the supply house which allow two power wires and the fixture wires to be installed. Most quality fixtures have these but when they come ready for only one power wire, I snip then and replace them. So far, they are a good idea and it will make future ballast replacements a lot easier and safer.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
No, I haved changed many that way,yet!!!!
Yes, and the reason why for me is that I was running a 100% no problems on changing ballasts hot, until that one day I slipped. Never again. I was one one of the 277v people on 480s poll getting zapped.
iaov
Senior Member
- Location
- Rhinelander WI
The disconnects are a good idea. Like Bob said we should avoid doing hot work if we can. I also believe it was a trail of bodies (electricians bodies) that led to this requirment.
- Status