Why HD?

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My problem with Big Box is not price or corp. owned...it's about quality and service.

Years ago I had an issue with some 12/2 NM from Big Box...when compared to 12/2 from a loacl supplier, you could feel the difference...the Big Box wire felt like #14. No, I didn't get out the calipers and mirometer....it wasn't neccessary...the Big Box wire didn't "feel" right.

In the ensuing years, after returning countless fixtures due to missing/damaged parts...these were boxes factory sealed...I had already learned (learnt) the hard way - NEVER buy an an opened/then taped shut box of ANYTHING at Big Box.

The final straw was when I was accused of "shoplifting" over $300 worth of various materials....a long story, probably told it here before....the mistake was COMPLETELY on Big Box's part.

I don't need that kind of BS in my life.
 
celtic said:
Years ago I had an issue with some 12/2 NM from Big Box...when compared to 12/2 from a local supplier, you could feel the difference...the Big Box wire felt like #14. No, I didn't get out the calipers and mirometer....it wasn't neccessary...the Big Box wire didn't "feel" right.
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An excellent point. I'm pretty convinced that many items, especially "bulk" ones, come in multiple versions and that part of the price difference at the big box is attributable to product quality differences. Anyone on the board who can confirm or deny?
 
Mike03a3 said:
An excellent point. I'm pretty convinced that many items, especially "bulk" ones, come in multiple versions and that part of the price difference at the big box is attributable to product quality differences. Anyone on the board who can confirm or deny?
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I just found 2 full rolls of 12/2 NM up in farthers barn, the black stuff. seems to be of much thicker and made better. The new slick type NM seem to tear or burn through a lot easier. Can I use this old black stuff?
 
a trip to the supply house costs me at least $140. $100 for the hour of lost production and $40 for the man who's going.

If it doesn't save me at least $140, I call the supply house and have them deliver it.

simple as that.

there are costs to everything. Just because the big box has a cheaper $ amount on a product, doesn't mean you are saving money.

I can not count the amount of time and money my local supply house and salesman have saved me over the years. emergency deliveries for $20/parts, interchangeable items for 1/2 the cost, fighting for special orders, etc.

if you only do residential new construction, the big boxes are your friend. if you do service or commercial, get in good with your supply house. it will save you money in the long run.
 
electricmanscott said:
Can't beat the tool departments at the big box stores.
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Amazon actually has beter prices, no tax and usually free shipping w/$25 purchase....no gas money required :D ...but if you have to get hands on ~ Sears.
 
i shop for the lowest prices.....and my suppliers know it. I make several thousand dollars each year by finding the lowest prices.
 
Another thing: the orange and blue stores seem to be almost everywhere I work, and I know what they stock. I'll gladly save time and gas to save money when I can.

celtic said:
Years ago I had an issue with some 12/2 NM from Big Box...when compared to 12/2 from a loacl supplier, you could feel the difference...the Big Box wire felt like #14. No, I didn't get out the calipers and mirometer....it wasn't neccessary...the Big Box wire didn't "feel" right.
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Are you suggesting that BB #12 actually has a smaller gauge than supply-house #12?

27hillcrest said:
I just found 2 full rolls of 12/2 NM up in farthers barn, the black stuff. Can I use this old black stuff?
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Yes, but if you're concerned, I'd be happy to take it off your hands.

As far as I know, sale of NM requires color-coding, not installation. I've used white 10/2 recently, and it's never been looked at as far as I know.
 
Larry,
As far as I know, sale of NM requires color-coding, not installation.
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There is no code or standard that requires the jacket of NM to be color coded. There is nothing to prevent a manufacturer from putting a yellow jacket on #14.
Don
 
LarryFine said:
Another thing: the orange and blue stores seem to be almost everywhere I work, and I know what they stock. I'll gladly save time and gas to save money when I can.

Are you suggesting that BB #12 actually has a smaller gauge than supply-house #12?
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I've noticed that some brands seem to be differently sized. The wires were the same size, but the sheath was different. I can't remember which of "Simpull" or "not Simpull" seemed smaller, but that was the difference I found once I figured it out.

Also, I seem to recall thinking the yellow stuff was a bit thicker than the white stuff when I first started seeing the yellow stuff. Both were 12/2, but the yellow just seemed bigger ...

As for the yellow and blue stores versus supply houses, as Larry said, they are everywhere. But also, they are open nights and weekends. If I ever give up my day job I might stand a chance of shopping at supply houses, but until they are open Saturdays and Sundays, and open after 5pm, just not going to happen.
 
You have to watch what you buy at the big box stores. Some manufacturers have caved into the price pressure and have created a lower quality product with the same brand name and part number for them.
Don
 
LarryFine said:
Are you suggesting that BB #12 actually has a smaller gauge than supply-house #12?
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I am not suggesting that at all....I am saying it.

I was not the one to notice it, one of my guys did - he brought it to my attention (on the jobsite), I agreed with his opinion. I had another one of my guys(at this same jobsite) also offer his opinion...which matched the previous 2 opinions.

This was a job I was doing in 93/94? ....and that was the last time I bought wire at HD.
 
We don't have a big blue locally but we do have a big orange, I find my suppliers prices are usually just below HD, I think they keep track, The advantage of my wholesaler is I can make a call before 6pm and have it delivered that evening, and the good thing is they know and usually have what I need. The scam by HD lately was to sell 200' rolls of 12-2 just below the cost of 250' 12-2, to the homeowner it looks just like a roll of 250'. I Will buy some stuff at the HD but prefer to buy from my wholesale supplier, if I have a problem with an item then again I call and that night its replaced with out doing nothing but hitting a speed number on my cell.:smile:
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
You have to watch what you buy at the big box stores. Some manufacturers have caved into the price pressure and have created a lower quality product with the same brand name and part number for them.
Don
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I think you'll find the part number is off by one or digits/letters.

For awhile, HUNTER fans that were sold at BB looked like the ones in the Hunter catalog...with one exception: The model number. The BB model number for the fan contains "BB" in it...you CANNOT find that model anywhere else but BB.

Recently, while in a BB...I saw they were selling "Jacuzzi" branded tubs for like $800. When I got home I went to the Jacuzzi website and entered the model number....what you get is NO support from Jacuzzi, but rather a link to BB online.
Goto www.jacuzzi.com and type in "ESPREE" as your search. The model number of the item I saw at BB is actually "Model: BB66-959" and cannot even be found at the jacuzzi site.

In order to obtain a lower price, something must be sacrifced. One may feel that sheer volume would allow for a reduction in price - and to an extent it might - but in the larger picture, it is quality that is sacrifced.

Of course not everyone is interested in quality. Not everyone needs to be interested in quality. The jobs you undertake will dictate the level of quality of the items installed - not everyone can afford a Ford...some people drive Kia's and Hyundai's...while others have Mercedes. I prefer to work in the Mercedes market....some of the people that own Mercedes also own Kia's they rent out ;)

There is a market and a market place for the different levels of quality: Caveat Emptor
 
one other thing that i like about the big box stores is everything is priced...at some of the supply houses you can ask three different people and get three different prices. I don't like having to negotiate price on every order.
 
sparky59 said:
one other thing that i like about the big box stores is everything is priced...at some of the supply houses you can ask three different people and get three different prices. I don't like having to negotiate price on every order.
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Agreed.

"How much is this?"

"Do you have an account?"

"Why? Does that change the price?"

"Of course not!" :rolleyes:
 
Hmmmm... Home Destructo or Lows carries >600A switch gear? 250MCM? Can order you specialty items, like floor boxes, and lighting? Control systems?

Even if they could, I would not attempt to get every day supplies from them. Those places are looking to homogenize the market, and availability of certian materials to the DYI market. Sure they did a great job at it. But often what they have in thier two ailses is not what I need. And it is a waste of time battling HO's and handy folk to the register. Particularly for myself as they are 5X the driving distance than any of the supply houses in my area.

And I could not get any better service from a few of them. I also go to a few family run operations and big name ones too. And over the years there have been times that no DIY joint could compare.
  • Need 10k' of Fire alarm wire tommorow....
  • Need 500' of Lutron Red this afternoon...
  • Need specialty lug for a panel right now!
  • 6' of 4" RMC with a 3 off-set on one end threaded and reamed - DELIVERED TO SITE.
Sure I don't need those things every day - but when I need them, I need them, and no DIY place is going to get it for me. I get my stuff delivered right to my site - often I don't even have to go in to pick it up. But part of that is built up relationships by buying the every day stuff... And usualy at roughly the same prices they offer at Hack Despot.

Granted I have it good here, I have 5 independant shops, two family owned, and 3 big name corporate supply houses, all within 4 miles of eachother in a 7X7 city. Also have ~20 independant hardware stores. All of them specialize in one way or another, and are competitive. They serve the big contractors, and the little guys. And if you want a good price with them - name it, and most are willing to work with you on it.

The main reason they are still here is that our city doesn't allow the big DIY malls to move in. They are all kept at freeway distances away.
 
sparky59 said:
I don't like having to negotiate price on every order.
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AMEN!

I just had that very same discussion with a supply house 3 days ago as I handed them a $40,000 check. I was running some 3.5" PVC and went there to pick up what I needed. They didn't have it all so I went to the other supply house that I use (I try to keep it to 2) to get the rest of the material.

I was charged almost 50% more at the 1st place than I was at the 2nd place. The 1st place usually gets more aggressive on the "quoted" jobs, but it appears the 2nd place is treating me better on the across the counter materials. I quit dealing with Graybar because of this and if this continues at the 1st place, I'll quit dealing with them too.

I expect my supplier to make money, but I also expect to be treated well. The story I got was "I need 16% to break even and 22% to show a profit, so if I charge you 10% of something I have to make it up elsewhere." I don't buy into this. The "stuff" that I get aggressive pricing on they usually don't even touch. They place the order, I get the PRO # and arrange to receive the material on the job site. All they do is order and invoice. I pay the bill within 10 days.

I have a hard time going to the supply house and buying 1-2 thousand feet of 3/4" PVC for $21 - $22 per 100 when I can go to a BB and get it for $15 - $16 per 100. I don't require a lot of hand holding or maintenance. I want the best price you can give me,...... every time.
 
celtic said:
I am not suggesting that at all....I am saying it.

I was not the one to notice it, one of my guys did - he brought it to my attention (on the jobsite), I agreed with his opinion. I had another one of my guys(at this same jobsite) also offer his opinion...which matched the previous 2 opinions.

This was a job I was doing in 93/94? ....and that was the last time I bought wire at HD.
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I have an extremely hard time believing this.
 
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