Why I really dislike inspectors and townships....

[cowboyjwc]

John, an intresting thing we have seen often, is if construction work is going on and they don't have the permit where it can be viewed from the street, even the police will contact the AHJ and they will go to the location and see who is doing the work.

I wish we had that system here because I like it. I've talked to other jurisdictions that have a system where a bright colored card is placed in the window so that you know that permitted work is going on.

It's hard enough to get our PD to respond to a call to them much less have them do our work.:roll:

 

[cowboyjwc]

John, this is a commercial project...all he had to do was look to see if a permit was applied for/pulled....

I kind of assumed, but like I said, at one time we wouldn't have gone out unless you filed a written complaint either. It usually has a lot to do with what the city attorney wants.

 

[jwjrw]

I kind of assumed, but like I said, at one time we wouldn't have gone out unless you filed a written complaint either. It usually has a lot to do with what the city attorney wants.

Our inspectors do ride around looking for work being done without a permit. The county wants that fee. I had one come to a coffee shop while I was looking to see what I would need to wire up 2 outdoor freezers(the owner was bolting them together at the time) and wanted to know where our permit was. I told him I hadnt started any work and that it was going to be a seperate service(different voltages). Things are so slow here they are getting laid off so I imagine unpermited work would make them mad enough to nail you.

 

[emahler]

I kind of assumed, but like I said, at one time we wouldn't have gone out unless you filed a written complaint either. It usually has a lot to do with what the city attorney wants.

why would the city attorney care?

 

[cowboyjwc]

why would the city attorney care?

Me telling you to get a permit and you actually getting one are two different things. Putting together a code compliance case is much the same as what cops go through to get someone convicted.

The case starts the minute you hear about the work being done. It's a very tedious process. Better have all of you i's dotted and your t's crossed.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Our inspectors do ride around looking for work being done without a permit. The county wants that fee. I had one come to a coffee shop while I was looking to see what I would need to wire up 2 outdoor freezers(the owner was bolting them together at the time) and wanted to know where our permit was. I told him I hadnt started any work and that it was going to be a seperate service(different voltages). Things are so slow here they are getting laid off so I imagine unpermited work would make them mad enough to nail you.

Oh and I do understand that.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

In NJ I have seen this handled different ways from ignoring the issue to generally more proffessional method of checking out the accussation. Personnally and most towns I have worked in when a complaint like this is heard send someone out to the property to see if work was done without a permit. We have no right of entry so if the work can't be seen from a public way, from a neighbor's property with the neighbors permission or identified from the street to the front door of the property we are out of luck unless the owner agrees to let us in and admits to the work.

Last week a contractor informed us of work at a property without permits. I could see the sheetrock in the driveway but not any of the work done. I went to the culdesac behind the property and could see a new enclosed porch and service. The amount of work alleged is well beyound this but this was enough for my department to send out a Notice of Violation with a $2000 penalty and the threat of $2000 per week until permits are issued.

I always respond to an allegation of work without permits. Sometimes we can't prove it. I have also seen the ploy of asking for a wriiten complaint used to quell the ardor of neighbors who doen't get along and call any time a service call to the property happens.

 

[kbsparky]

I just spent $400 just for the meter socket and riser materials. How can you change out everything and make a profit?

You are buying from the wrong supplier if this is the case ...

 

[wbalsam1]

.............
work consists of replacing a boiler that died and removing/resetting a couple of RTU's so that work can be done on the roof...

suffice to say - no permits have been pulled for this work...no electrical...no plumbing (gas)....no permits period...

I call the local electrical inspector (whom I've known for about 15 yrs) and see what needs to be done to get them to go see if permits were pulled...

...........his response was "you have to send us a complaint in writing"....

In any of the communities I've worked in, a permit is required for the installation of a new electrical system or the extension of an existing system........same goes for plumbing. This work sounds like a repair and/or replacement for both. The real work is taking place on the roof. This roof work may also be a necessary repair and not affect structural components and therefore may not require a permit.

The inspector may want the signed complaint in order to explain his showing up on the project. Even though a permit may not be necessary, the work must still conform to the code. This is where I've always had doubts about the "thoroughness" of a code enforcement program in determining the non-permitted work conforming to code when inspections are waived in so many instances. Typically the way to tell that non-permitted work did not conform is after the fire, etc. Not always the best of planning.

Perhaps a letter of complaint to the electrical inspector's boss would be in order if, in fact, permits are required.

 

[zappy]

1st off - this has nothing to do with passing or failing an inspection....

Here is why it bothers me....

In a local town, the one I grew up it, our mechanical side priced a job for a local business. The business owner is our customer, but he leases the space in a strip mall...

The landlord didn't like our price...ok...and decided to get his normal HVAC guys in to do the work...ok...

work consists of replacing a boiler that died and removing/resetting a couple of RTU's so that work can be done on the roof...

suffice to say - no permits have been pulled for this work...no electrical...no plumbing (gas)....no permits period...

I call the local electrical inspector (whom I've known for about 15 yrs) and see what needs to be done to get them to go see if permits were pulled...

this work is in a small strip mall that contains a bar, a bank, a sub shop, a pizza place and a couple of retail stores...

his response was "you have to send us a complaint in writing"....

why the hell are they making it harder on the legal contractor, trying to do the right thing, then on the trunk slammer doing the wrong thing....

so now, we have to make a formal complaint - which if we do, will most certainly open a can of worms between the landlord, our customer and us....

or if we don't file a written complaint, they won't even pull the address and stop buy to make sure everything is legal...

wtf is wrong with townships? why can't they do the right thing? why can't we get tort reform in this country so people aren't afraid to breathe?

So if you don't want to be seen as the snitch, ask someone else to fill out the complaint. Just a idea.

 

[brantmacga]

I've given up even trying to keep unlicensed guys from working around here. About four years ago my city hired a new inspector; his first order of business was to stop all unlicensed contractors. Turns out almost every contractor in town was unlicensed and many uninsured, and the inspector nearly lost his job over trying to stop it. Most of these "contractors" had been in business for 20+ years and "it never hurt anyone before", according to commissioners. I filed a complaint with the state about three years ago over an unlicensed LV electrical contractor working alongside me; its yet to go before the board. I just do my thing and let them do theirs.

 

[jwjrw]

In NJ I have seen this handled different ways from ignoring the issue to generally more proffessional method of checking out the accussation. Personnally and most towns I have worked in when a complaint like this is heard send someone out to the property to see if work was done without a permit. We have no right of entry so if the work can't be seen from a public way, from a neighbor's property with the neighbors permission or identified from the street to the front door of the property we are out of luck unless the owner agrees to let us in and admits to the work.

Last week a contractor informed us of work at a property without permits. I could see the sheetrock in the driveway but not any of the work done. I went to the culdesac behind the property and could see a new enclosed porch and service. The amount of work alleged is well beyound this but this was enough for my department to send out a Notice of Violation with a $2000 penalty and the threat of $2000 per week until permits are issued.

I always respond to an allegation of work without permits. Sometimes we can't prove it. I have also seen the ploy of asking for a wriiten complaint used to quell the ardor of neighbors who doen't get along and call any time a service call to the property happens.

The way most get caught is by not making the customer happy and they turn them in. Most guys working without a permit hide the stuff from view for that reason.
The other way to go about it is for a neighbor to complain they dont have a building permit. Noise complaint etc then the city(here anyway)will investigate and turn you into the county.

 

[jaylectricity]

You are buying from the wrong supplier if this is the case ...

I called around.

 

[jaylectricity]

Our inspectors do ride around looking for work being done without a permit.

My plumbing friend used to do the plumbing inspections in his town. Small town, he and the electrical inspector had grown up there. Then the town came to him and the electrical inspector and said they needed to drive around looking for unpermitted work. He refused. He said, "These are my friends, people I grew up with and you think I'm gonna rat them out?"

The electrical inspector did as the town asked and is widely hated in that town. Even people with nothing to do with electricity call him Rat [last name redacted] instead of Pat.

 

[jwjrw]

I called around.

What amp meter can?
Rigid?

 

[jaylectricity]

What amp meter can?
Rigid?

It was a 200 amp meter bypass. I think I paid $130 for it. 84 feet of THHN 2/0 copper was $183 I believe, I don't have the invoice in front of me right now. 7 ft of 2/0 SEU for about $45. PVC expansion joint, weatherhead, male adapter, clips, SE connectors. Already had sticks of PVC.

 

[LarryFine]

The $1K vs $2K service argument is silly, because every job is different. Not all houses have masts. Sometimes, the existing meter base is usable. Some need outside mains, some have adequate grounding already, some are flush-mount, etc., etc., etc.

There is no one-size-fits-all service install or upgrade, so there is no one-size-fits-all price. I've never bought a meter base, except for one 5-unit meter-main 800a stack in a multi-use building with an underground feed. Price alone means nothing.

 

[bradleyelectric]

The $1K vs $2K service argument is silly, because every job is different. Not all houses have masts. Sometimes, the existing meter base is usable. Some need outside mains, some have adequate grounding already, some are flush-mount, etc., etc., etc.

There is no one-size-fits-all service install or upgrade, so there is no one-size-fits-all price. I've never bought a meter base, except for one 5-unit meter-main 800a stack in a multi-use building with an underground feed. Price alone means nothing.

True. Lets just say we learn sales and sell a basic 200 Amp service for $2250. We go up from there.

 

[danickstr]

you guys say trunk slammer like its a bad thing. I drive a car to almost all my jobs. Once a job is set up, I don't need a truck (or van) full of weight I am not using. Of course I know what you are talking about, and I am fully licensed insured and bonded, and pull permits. People think its funny sometimes, but I tell them that I can go to Home Depot or the wholesale house much faster than a guy in a van.

I throw my bags and drills, and such in a trunk and show up to a set up job, more than I go in a truck. but I don't usually have several different varied calls in one day, or I would not be able to get away with it.

 

[Dom99]

We have one township, West Whiteland, that is completely ridiculous. On a bathroom remodel job they wanted smoke alarms installed thru out the house, which would've cost the customer thousands of dollars in labor. Loud complaining got that stopped.

On a basement remodel, they made the contractor install a sprinkler head under the cellar steps, which has nothing under it. The house has an existing sprinkler system.