Why?

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iaov said:
I put it in my bids exactly what change orders will cost and I always have the blank forms with me in the truck. There are some jobs that are extremely profitable just because of the change orders, and I get no grief from the HO as they know up front that changes of mind entail changes of money from thier pockets to mine.:smile:
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Hi iaov,
Do you work alone, or do you have a crew who work for you? I have four electricians, and with all the jobs that they get sent to, I find it to be very difficult to keep track of changes. Believe me, I have tried but it has not been easy. The other thing is, how do you collect from the GC's ? Most of them give the HO a price that is based on our subcontracted price, and resisit paying too much more beyond the contracted amount. Is that true for most of you, or am I being used by the GCs? Lastly, if you could share with us/me the change order form you referred to, that would be great. I am trying to get a handle on wasted time and material, but find it very frustrating. e/m
 
Speaking of pricing, does anyone know if either of the electrical cost estimate books are actually close price wise to the general supply house costs ? I'm more specifically looking for an estimate guide for the Maryland and Delaware areas, just to save some time on the phone between myself and the various local distributors salespersons when it comes down to figuring quick estimates for my employer.There are 3 or 4 books I've found searching the internet, all of which seem good but without actually flipping through 'em it's difficult to decide which may be the best for the money .
Current or former user opinions would be helpful and appreciated , I'm already familiar with approximately how much of my time alot of the work, per job, would take, it's the so to say 'nuts and bolts' of the various job materials that I have the most difficulty estimating.
Thank you,
Carl
 
Energy-Miser said:
Hi iaov,
The other thing is, how do you collect from the GC's ? Most of them give the HO a price that is based on our subcontracted price, and resisit paying too much more beyond the contracted amount. Is that true for most of you, or am I being used by the GCs? Lastly, if you could share with us/me the change order form you referred to, that would be great. I am trying to get a handle on wasted time and material, but find it very frustrating. e/m
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We were having the same problems. Even after the builder agreed on the change they would complain about having to pay for it when they got the bill. What we've had to do is make up change order forms and not perform ANY changes until the sheet filled out and signed by the job superintendent.

The form has spaces for: Location, date, work performed, material used, time taken, PRICE, and a line for a signature. No signature no change.

Just because a HO wants something changed doesn't mean it'll be changed. It has to be approved by the builder first!
 
Carl Ewing said:
Speaking of pricing, does anyone know if either of the electrical cost estimate books are actually close price wise to the general supply house costs ? I'm more specifically looking for an estimate guide for the Maryland and Delaware areas, just to save some time on the phone between myself and the various local distributors salespersons when it comes down to figuring quick estimates for my employer.There are 3 or 4 books I've found searching the internet, all of which seem good but without actually flipping through 'em it's difficult to decide which may be the best for the money .
Current or former user opinions would be helpful and appreciated , I'm already familiar with approximately how much of my time alot of the work, per job, would take, it's the so to say 'nuts and bolts' of the various job materials that I have the most difficulty estimating.
Thank you,
Carl
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Do you have an account with Graybar? They used to have a spreadsheet with all of the pricing. Otherise there are several pricing services out there.
Does Mike Holt produce something like this?
 
Energy-Miser said:
Hi iaov,
Do you work alone, or do you have a crew who work for you? I have four electricians, and with all the jobs that they get sent to, I find it to be very difficult to keep track of changes. Believe me, I have tried but it has not been easy. The other thing is, how do you collect from the GC's ? Most of them give the HO a price that is based on our subcontracted price, and resisit paying too much more beyond the contracted amount. Is that true for most of you, or am I being used by the GCs? Lastly, if you could share with us/me the change order form you referred to, that would be great. I am trying to get a handle on wasted time and material, but find it very frustrating. e/m
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Nothing is more important than capturing those change orders. You should commit to becoming an expert at it. Train your people, make the paperwork easy, audit your jobs for the scope of work and be prepared to indiscipline your guys for giving work away. I'm sure your men don't want to be cheated out of hours on payday. If they spend your time giving work away you are getting double ripped off.

Changes must be approved by the owner and paid for. Dont forget time making asbuilts and designing the change in the price.
 
jrannis said:
Nothing is more important than capturing those change orders.
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I would like to AGREE with this statement. If you do a change, it cost you. That money comes right off the bottom line! If you are in a tight market and bidding aggressivley, it only takes a few unpaid changes to kill any profit you might squeek out.

An important part of getting change orders signed and paid is to be polite.
 
jrannis said:
Do you have an account with Graybar? They used to have a spreadsheet with all of the pricing. Otherise there are several pricing services out there.
Does Mike Holt produce something like this?
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No we don't use a Graybar, I'll do a Google search to see if there's one localy.
We currently use either E.D.Supply,Grainger or United Electric Supply.The only one of these besides the overly priced Grainger that has anything is the United Electric Supply of whom is currently trying to get a web access catalog up and running for current customers' use. Meanwhile I have to make all kinds of phone calls, set on hold and wait for pricing quotes . On occasion one of the local sales rep's will stop in , I'll give him a list that he faxes back with prices usually 2 or more days later.
Carl:)
 
GilbeSpark said:
We were having the same problems. Even after the builder agreed on the change they would complain about having to pay for it when they got the bill. What we've had to do is make up change order forms and not perform ANY changes until the sheet filled out and signed by the job superintendent.

The form has spaces for: Location, date, work performed, material used, time taken, PRICE, and a line for a signature. No signature no change.

Just because a HO wants something changed doesn't mean it'll be changed. It has to be approved by the builder first!
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Thanks for your response. Do you buy the pre-printed change-order forms, or did you make your own. The only ticket we use currently is the pre-printed triplicate work-order tickets and any change orders are communicated verbally or by the mechnics on a note paper, and I am sure a lot of the change orders and extra work gets lost, because it does not get communicated. e/m
 
jrannis said:
Do you have an account with Graybar? They used to have a spreadsheet with all of the pricing. Otherise there are several pricing services out there.
Does Mike Holt produce something like this?
Click to expand...
Hi,
Was the spread sheet available online for downloading? We have Graybar around here and I am thinking about opening up an account with them. Please let me know how they make the prices available. Thanks, e/m
 
jrannis said:
Nothing is more important than capturing those change orders. You should commit to becoming an expert at it. Train your people, make the paperwork easy, audit your jobs for the scope of work and be prepared to indiscipline your guys for giving work away. I'm sure your men don't want to be cheated out of hours on payday. If they spend your time giving work away you are getting double ripped off.

Changes must be approved by the owner and paid for. Dont forget time making asbuilts and designing the change in the price.
Click to expand...
Yes thanks. I agree you cannot overstate this, as if you are not disciplined in it, then a lot of work walks right out the door. I am one of those slackers, not because I am a slacker, but because I have not had enough experience to know this as a major source of revenue loss, but have come to recognize it. Implementing a system to stop the bleeding is not eay, but of course is a must. I have found out that most electricians, when they are told the exact scope of the work, they are usually pretty good about reporting back to you if their time is being abused. But of course knowing it after the fact is one thing, being pro-active with it, and having the superintendent sign a ticket ahead of time, etc. is another, is the way to go. e/m.
 
hardworkingstiff said:
I would like to AGREE with this statement. If you do a change, it cost you. That money comes right off the bottom line! If you are in a tight market and bidding aggressivley, it only takes a few unpaid changes to kill any profit you might squeek out.

An important part of getting change orders signed and paid is to be polite.
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Agreed, but my question is a lot of times the change order comes from homeowner making a last minute change of mind about the location of something, color, style, etc. If the GC is not good at forcing them to pay for it, then it will make it difficult for you to get paid by the GC. What is your experience when it comes to that? e/m
 
JohnJ0906 said:
No changes until the change order is signed by job super... first! Pad of change order tickets on every truck. No exceptions.
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John, do you get a lot of grief from the super when you ask for change order in writing? How about collection on the charges for those? e/m
 
If the change is requested by the homeownerm then the HO signs the order before we proceed, and pays the extra, that day, before we leave the home.

If it is a GC order, he signs the order, and if billed that day.
 
Energy-Miser said:
John, do you get a lot of grief from the super when you ask for change order in writing? How about collection on the charges for those? e/m
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Sometimes. Never with one that is familiar with me. Sign, or no work is done. Often, it is for damage to my work, or a last minute change, and there's never a problem for these.

There may or may not be argument at a level above my head, but as long as the ticket is signed, my rear is covered.

Often these are used as trading chips, as well. "I won't charge for this, if you don't back charge me for that"
 
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