Wire

[fernandozavala_1]

Is it true that you can save money by using #12 in the entire house instead of #14?

 

[LarryFine]

Is it true that you can save money by using #12 in the entire house instead of #14?

Not enough to cover the difference in cost of the wire.

Such upsizing might, for a load such as resistive heating, save a pittance because a voltage drop might be compensated for by the heat running a few seconds more, but if the warm wire is in the heated space, it's not really a loss.

For other types of loads, such as lighting, voltage drop might even save you a smidgen, unless you went to a higher-wattage bulb to compensate. A motor load also depends on whether there is a performance-related effect to voltage drop.

Added: I like 15a lighting circuits and 20a receptacle circuits. The former loads are predictable, but the latter not so much.

 

[mike johnson]

You tell me.

You tell me.

USA COSTS = 14/2= $40-$49 for 250feet 12/2= $64-$73 for 250 feet.

 

[brantmacga]

i would use #14 everywhere if the code didn't require otherwise. Yeh, I said it.

 

[stickboy1375]

NO to the OP's question, and I would use #14 everywhere as well.

 

[ItsHot]

range outlet

range outlet

NO to the OP's question, and I would use #14 everywhere as well.

Even on the range outlet? :grin:

 

[stickboy1375]

Even on the range outlet? :grin:

If it were gas, absolutely... :grin:

 

[JohnJ0906]

i would use #14 everywhere if the code didn't require otherwise. Yeh, I said it.

If the door knocks at 3 AM, it's Copper.org. They wish to have a "word" with you.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I believe that over the lifetime of the house, the upsizing, even one size can have a cost benefit. The actual cost of the difference between 14 and 12 is not that significant for a standard house. The life of the house is what can make the difference.


There are engineers on this site who may be able to figure out the cost benefits over years.


In case some of you have forgotten, the costs of electric have been going up, up, up. Think of the next fifty years.

 

[HighWirey]

I believe that over the lifetime of the house, the upsizing, even one size can have a cost benefit. The actual cost of the difference between 14 and 12 is not that significant for a standard house. The life of the house is what can make the difference.
There are engineers on this site who may be able to figure out the cost benefits over years.
In case some of you have forgotten, the costs of electric have been going up, up, up. Think of the next fifty years.

I completely concur with your statements. Unfortunately, most questions posted here are set in a competetive arena, and 12awg over 14 may lose you that project.

Best Wishes Everyone

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Given the small and mostly non-continuous loads in a dwelling unit, I have my doubts that the increased material costs would ever be covered the the decrease in energy costs. I'd have to see some hard numbers.

 

[wireguru]

is he talking about saving $ by eliminating voltage drop? Or is he asking about saving money by through the design phase, for example using #12/20a cir to get more rooms on a single AFCI vs #14/15a, getting more lighting on one circuit, etc.

 

[macmikeman]

USA COSTS = 14/2= $40-$49 for 250feet 12/2= $64-$73 for 250 feet.

I should move to the USA. I spent $102 / 250ft the other day.

 

[macmikeman]

If they were making 12-2 stabiloy aluminum romex, I would be willing to use all #12 and #10 in a house. :smile:

 

[LarryFine]

I should move to the USA. I spent $102 / 250ft the other day.

Want me to email you some?

 

[Lxnxjxhx]

cost benefits over years

cost benefits over years

The average midwest person uses 800 watts, continuously.
1 kW is probably more representative.

How many people in the average house?

1000' of #12 at 5 A dissipates 40 watts.

1000' of #14 at 5 A dissipates 63 watts.

How many feet of wire in a house?

 

[Lxnxjxhx]

Furthermore, the local power company, Pepco, (localpocopepco) sort of says that 1/3 of the power goes to wires larger than #12.

So the answer is obvious. . .!

 

[Podagrower]

With all that being said, if it was your house, would you use 14 or 12 for the branch circuits?
For years and years, I said 14. But when it was time to build, it was nothing smaller than 12, no aluminum, including service cable. Of course, I timed my house building out to right before copper went balistic.

 

[BryanMD]

Chicago influence

Chicago influence

With all that being said, if it was your house, would you use 14 or 12 for the branch circuits?

Don't know that I will actually do it but I designed my new place using emt. Based on that you can assume it would be all copper including panel buss and pulling 12's for everything.

But I know someone who will do the work for beer and pizza so I'll be saving a ton on labor!

 

[iwire]

With all that being said, if it was your house, would you use 14 or 12 for the branch circuits?

Both, 12 where required 14 where it's allowed and I have been re-wiring my home.