wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

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davedottcom

davedottcom

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This is just a very small glimpse into the list of violations I found on a customer's boat dock (Wired just 6 months ago)

No GFCI protection for anything!
Open Neutral energizing 54 volts into the salt water!
Box fill? Conduit fill? Huh? What's that?!
Shared neutrals on same phase.
Way too many things to list...
It goes on and on and on.
Some of the worst (new) wiring I've ever seen.

:roll:
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

You guessed it! The E.C. pulled a permit to install a "Temp." service on the lot. Once the inspector was gone... the dock wiring began.
:(
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

How was the open neutral putting 54V into the water? Measured between which two points? I was unaware of a GFI requirement for boat docks. Definetly sounds like a good idea though. Whats the reference for this?

FYI, Not doubting you just curious? That does look like a serious hack job though.
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

Originally posted by jes25:
[QB] How was the open neutral putting 54V into the water? Measured between which two points? I was unaware of a GFI requirement for boat docks.
Click to expand...
Owner said he felt "Tingles"!

It was actually something I trouble-shot a few months ago. Same service/dock. At the time I recommended to the owner that the EC that installed the service should repair it under warranty.
The "Temp" meter base was Very old and corroaded. Neutral was real bad and not making contact. Voltage was somehow feeding through circuits (Through 120 Volt loads)and returning to the service Ground/Neutral bar. I guess from there the voltage went down through the ground rod and into the earth finding it's way to the salt water.
I took a reading from the metal parts of the boat to the water with my meter. 54 volts.
It would fluctuate depending on what loads were applied.
Open Neutrals do real weird stuff. I'm not going to pretend I fully understand it! But I know it when I see it!

As far as GFCIs. All outdoor 120 recps are supposed to be GFCI protected. None were!
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

Besides the box fill it doesn't appear to be that bad to fix. T&M job, you could take as long as you want to make repairs. I see two nuetrals looks like maybe some re splicing will fix it.
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

I'm curious how you got involved. Was it inspected and failed so you were hired to make the corrections? Good for you if you want a mess like that to clean up but does this customer have a deep pocket?

Thinking as I would, my first reaction would be to contact the original EC and have him make his own repairs to code compiance at his expense, not mine.

Bob
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

Trust me Tom, it gets much worse. That picture was just one colorful glimpse!
It wasn't even worth trying to salvage the conduits!
(J. boxes filled with water, Broken pipes & boxes... over filled pipes where I need more wires, etc...)
I already gutted everything! ;)
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

Why is there a white wire and a black wire on the same side of that receptacle :eek:

Oh, I see now its not a standard 120V duplex. Nevermind.

[ December 28, 2005, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: steve66 ]
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

Did anyone notice the wire wrapped the wrong way arround the screw. they are hard to tighten that way.
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

Originally posted by davedottcom:


As far as GFCIs. All outdoor 120 recps are supposed to be GFCI protected. None were!
Click to expand...
OOPs. DUH :eek: I knew that, for some reason I thought there was something specfic to baot docks. Seems like there should be.
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

Originally posted by davedottcom:
As far as GFCIs. All outdoor 120 recps are supposed to be GFCI protected. None were!
Click to expand...
We have to be a little more careful with that.

All 'dwelling unit' outdoor receptacles must be GFCI protected.

If this is not a dwelling unit than it may not be required to be GFCI protected.
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

Originally posted by davedottcom:
Voltage was somehow feeding through circuits (Through 120 Volt loads)and returning to the service Ground/Neutral bar. I guess from there the voltage went down through the ground rod and into the earth finding it's way to the salt water.
I took a reading from the metal parts of the boat to the water with my meter. 54 volts.
It would fluctuate depending on what loads were applied.
Open Neutrals do real weird stuff. I'm not going to pretend I fully understand it! But I know it when I see it!
Click to expand...
If the boats were all unplugged, did the 54 volts go away? Often this problem is boat wiring.

The outlet in your picture was not for shore power for boats. Do they have boat shore power available (usually 30-amp or 50-amp twist-lock receptacles).

In case you didn't see these.

http://www.mikeholt.com/newsletters.php?action=display&letterID=36

http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_case_hot_marina/


If you stay involved (and I hope you do since you care, it may save a life), I would suggest prior to making any changes you take additional readings. From the boat hull to a known good ground. From the water (adjacent to this boat) to a known good ground. From the water adjacent to this boat at different distances from the boat to a known good ground. Then again with all the boats disconnected from the power source (this should help determine if it is in the boat or structure wiring).

Good luck.
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

One more.

http://www.mikeholt.com/newsletters.php?action=display&letterID=47

We were walking toward our houseboat when we heard the girls screaming for help," Mr. Evans said Wednesday. "I could see the one girl (Stinnett) was on the boat and had hold of the other's (Chipley) hand while trying to get her out of the water. I dove into the water from our dock and swam vigorously toward them. "But, the closer I got I realized I was being shocked. My legs and the lower part of my body became paralyzed. I had to back myself out of the electrical current. I'm not sure how I got out of it - but God was with me...By that time, the girl had already disappeared from the surface."
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

hardworkingstiff, I did that trouble shooting months ago. (Before everything on the dock stopped working!)
I had questioned whether the boat might be the source (No shore power) but since the voltage would disappear when I killed the service main I concluded it was ultimately from the service. I did take many readings and I do have them in my files.
I will DEFINITELY take more when I'm finished the dock wiring.

I had already (months ago) explained to the owners just how dangerous it is. I told them NOT to energize it until it's repaired. At the time they wanted the original EC to fix it, since I would charge them...etc.

To say the least they are disgusted with the "other" guy and want me to rewire everything.

I'll let you know how it all turns out and if Any voltage still exists in the water.
I'm going to print out and give her that list you sent.
Thanks,
Dave
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

I am curious about something with this story. How is it that a person immersed and swimming in a charged water system without contact with other objects such as ground feels an effect from the electric current? Where is the potential that allows the current to flow through the body coming from? In other words, what is the circuit or path that the body is completing? If I am completely immersed in a like-charged atmosphere and do not make contact that would provide a path for discharge, is it still possible to be electrocuted?

Bob
 
Re: wires and splices and circuits Oh My!

My guess is that there is significant neutral current from the boat, through the water, and on to earth. There would be significant voltage drop developed in the water, and with the contact between skin and water, it would not take much to force dangerous currents through the body.

Sounds like an open neutral in the wiring to the boat.
 
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