For the benefit of everyone following this thread:
I do want to point out that the NFPA staff response is dated 03-26-07. It was addressed to staff in reference to the 2005 version of the NEC.
All Code Sections which are relevant to auxiliary gutters and wireways WHEN used as pullboxes are unchanged in the 08 NEC
...Whatever NFPA Staff responded with, in regards to the 05 NEC, should still be applicable in the exact same way for the 08 NEC? (at least as I see it...)
Important ... ...for clarity ...
at the bottom of Post #23, Rick has quoted a statement noting it as originally posted by NFPA Staff.
This is in error? this statement (also directly below) was made by mweaver directed to NFPA staff? (...although for me, that doesn't really change anything...)
statement by mweaver NOT from NFPA Staff...
...I have received from other interested persons... have led me to believe this requirement for auxiliary gutters used as pullboxes may include all the requirements of 314.28(A)(1) and (A)(2), which would include the required dimension to the opposite wall for angle pulls...
There are only two staff responses to three posed questions in my post #22?
All other text represents mweaver?s statements to staff?
To be clear, I posed this question to NFPA staff after a followup of lengthy conversations with others (who can remain nameless
) on this very issue which did encompass Mr. Holt?s graphic (It was a graphic in post #1 or one quite similar) depicting the application of wireways used as pullboxes. When I read new language in the 05 NEC on this issue and then looked at Mr. Holt's graphic, I just could not see where he was comming up with the opposite wall requirement, affecting the wireway vertical width for his U pull. For me, the NEC text (inside the Articles for gutters and wireways) did not include this language, and it should not be assumed that it was inclusive... For me, the pullbox language (inside the Articles for gutters and wireways) is very clearly instructing what part of Section 314.28(A)(2) should be considered (it is clearly not requiring consideration of all parts...). ...at least for me ...
My initial purpose for posing said questions to NFPA was to determine when auxiliary gutters and wireways were considered as being utilized to be pullboxes, and EXACTLY what is required when they are used as such. And also when the pullbox requirements will have NO impact on gutters and wireways?
For me, the NFPA Staff responses have acomplished this... at the time I recieved the response and now upon much later review... The NFPA Staff's second response (for me...) distinguishes (although not as clearly as I would like...) when these pullbox requirements will not apply and other requirements [the requirements of 312.6(A)] will apply... For me, there is a clear demarcation here... For me, this makes both of Mr. Holt's graphics from post #1 incorrect and not in conformance with the NFPA staff responses... and not representative of the NEC gutter and wireway pullbox requirements.
... It is definitely possible that I may have to agree to disagree with many of you on this pullbox issue, until additional clarity and language is available ...
In discussing this with several members of the enforcement branch (back in early 07 when this came to a head for me?), to determine when gutter and wireway IS supplementing the wiring space, i.e. a panelboard or switchboard, and the requirements of 314.28(A)(1) and (A)(2) are not applicable to the installation; one jurisdiction (also to remain nameless, cause I cannot remember who) provided more clarity for their local level, and established a raceway length of a certain footage (such as 6 feet). If the raceway entering or exiting the gutter or wireway is longer than 6 feet (for example) the raceway entering the gutter or wireway cannot be supplementing another enclosure. If the raceway entry is not supplementing, then it must be using (a portion of) the gutter or wireway as a pullbox and Sections 366.58(B), 376.23(B), and 378.23(B) (the pullbox requirements) will apply ONLY to the appropriate gutter or wireway portion of the installation.
In my opinion today (and at that time in 07 others agreed? not that it matters today...) wireways can supplement the wiring space (of other enclosures) just as gutters can? and while gutters and wireways are supplementing wiring space of other enclosures; portions of the same gutters and wireways can also be used as pullboxes. Only the appropriate requirements will apply to the appropriate portions of the gutter or wireway installations?
What makes all this problematic for all of us is that without clear and universal understanding of the pullbox requirements contained within the auxiliary gutter and wireway NEC Articles, enforcement is going to vary widely based upon each jurisdiction?s understanding of the requirements? One easy solution I promote is that you could all just agree with me and NFPA staff
? (although admittedly, more clarification from the CMP is probably going to be necessary here?)
REALLY, REALLY Important... ?for me
? anyway
One extremely noteworthy (and certainly the most important ) contribution to this thread that has caught my attention this AM, is the obvious wisdom and insight of another longtime experienced poster - moderator (who is obviously of extreme superior intelligence, and also must be an excellent judge of character ? A man who has the precision to cut through the muck (with the accuracy of a surgeon's scalpel) and see the Code clearly and apply it appropriately... ...) Don, Illinois, who has recognized (right off) that I actually had this right all along .
(assuming I have understood him correctly
...)
To the OP: Twoskinsoneman... Hey, Thanks for posting this ? It leads to universal understanding of these requirements...
Mweaver (who is guessing this saga will continue on....)
