Wiring new residential developments.

[Brad Baxter]

Going into wiring new residential developments. Does any of you have some sites or info as to how i can bid on developments? Any help would be gladly appreciated. thanks.

 

[480sparky]

Two words: Good luck.

You'll need it. Resi tracts are notorious for not making the EC any money at all. Lowest price wins the contract. If you can provide superior service and a superb product, the guys who bids $2 below you will get the job.

Bid it to make money for your efforts. Don't bid it low just to get the work.

 

[peter d]

To do this work and make money you will need two things: cheap help, and speed. Forget any notion of doing a quality job that is anything above minimum code.

 

[ceb58]

To do this work and make money you will need two things: cheap help, and speed. Forget any notion of doing a quality job that is anything above minimum code.

To do this work and make money you will need two things: cheap help, and speed. Forget any notion of doing a quality job that is anything above minimum code.

Sad to say but Peter d is 100% correct. I had a track builder tell me I could have 40-50 houses or more a year,BUT, I had to meet the other guys price. His price sheet was 2 years old. After material and paying labor I would put $300.00 per house in my pocket. God forbid I burn up a drill there goes my money. I will stick to my 3 or 4 customs that I walk away with 6 to 7 K each.

 

[Rawls007]

I talked to one builder who wanted me to consider doing one of his subvisions. He gave me a set of plans and told me if I could do them for $2.10 a foot I'd get the job, since that was all he was willing to pay. Needless to say, I left the plans there and politely thanked him for his time. At that price, I'd be lucky to make $200 to $300 per house before taxes.

Needless to say, if you find the right builder whose willing to pay a fair price, lots of money can be made. Get a good crew, come up with a standard system for rough in and trim out and you can become very proficient.

 

[Brad Baxter]

Networking info.

Networking info.

Ok so you guys are sounding like your against the new sub divisions but that means i should be able to bid them. any help on where to bid online sites etc. since you guys seem to not want them. how do i connect with these? how can i get at least a chance to bid them?

 

[peter d]

Ok so you guys are sounding like your against the new sub divisions but that means i should be able to bid them.

Not against them at all, but you must have a military-like system in place to do them efficiently if you hope to make money.

 

[brantmacga]

how can i get at least a chance to bid them?

I guess all I can say is make yourself known to the developer. Go meet them face-to-face, let them know what you do and that you want a shot at their work.

As far as the bid itself goes, you'll just have to do a take-off on each of the houses. Don't forget to talk w/ poco about their requirements. On a new subdivision, some will do all of the work and charge the developer, and some want the EC or a utility contractor to do all of the work. Just make all of your bases are covered.

 

[ceb58]

Ok so you guys are sounding like your against the new sub divisions but that means i should be able to bid them. any help on where to bid online sites etc. since you guys seem to not want them. how do i connect with these? how can i get at least a chance to bid them?

Brad,
I do not know how long you have been doing this or how hungry you are for work. If your work is neat,code compliant and way above average you will work for nothing. If your work is just barely passable, you have some guys that will work for min. wage and rough in a 2000 sq. ft house in no more than 2 days. Go for it. If this is what you want to do go to the GC in these sub divisions and tell them about your self and that you will beat the other guys price by 10% no mater how little he is charging. Just remember this #1 the developers only care about their pocket. The more they beat the sub's down the more they make because you can bet you last dollar they dont pass the savings on to the buyer. #2 Don't think you will get your foot in the door and up sell items to make money on. They have every thing thought out and dont add anything. #3 If you get in with them just remember some one else that is more hungry than you will come along and you will be on the street. The PM for the company that offered me ALL those houses told me later the company all ready has a set price they pay for every thing. If the co. price was $2.75 per sq. ft for framing and he beat some one down $0.25 on the price that $0.25 per sq ft went into his pocket as a bonus. I cannot speak for the others that feel the way I do but before I put 40+ hours total in one house, have a contractor think he owns me and my time and can set my schedule for his every whim for $300.00 I will sell my tools, trailer and set at home and watch TV. Bid all you want Brad, you dont have me to worry about.

 

[macmikeman]

This thread makes me think of only one thing. Never buy a trac house, it will have lousy wiring. Except I did a condo subdivision once, and I made good money contracting it, and it got wired first class, except I did stick to the plans and only put in switched outlets in bedrooms like the plan called for. Change orders for upgrades, and a really good plan of attack in wiring did help me make out ok. Just be careful with the bid. You will be able to reduce your price for trac vs regular house bids due to repeat layouts and an onsite office/storage but make sure you bid with profit as the goal, and know all the costs of doing this endevor before turning in your bid.

 

[C3PO]

I am going to have to agree with CEB58. Most developers are going to squeeze you for all they can and it just is not worth it.

But I have done one small subdivision (around 25-30 lots higher end homes) and did pretty good. The developer was concerned for more than the bottom line though.

So far that is the only developer that I have met that was concerned for doing a good, honest job and not just money.

 

[satcom]

I am going to have to agree with CEB58. Most developers are going to squeeze you for all they can and it just is not worth it.

But I have done one small subdivision (around 25-30 lots higher end homes)

The higher end homes, usually allow you to loose, more money at a faster pace.

 

[ishium 80439]

I once worked for a company that had about 30-35 guys wiring tract housing. The owner decided to start up a commercial side of the company and I got to work with some of the guys that had been doing the tracts for a while. It wasn't pretty. Some of these guys were bright and hard workers but didn't know a lick about electricianing (it's a word now). As others have said if you can find some mules that you can beat for cheap and can keep them from thinking you may stand a chance, but it is a very cut throat market. This particular owner actually did quite well with these projects. The key for him was he had a super that would work the guys like crazy and he had the numbers down to the nickel. Just don't get caught wasting material. I heard stories of this guy jumping into a dumpster and pulling out scraps of wire that he figured to be too long to be garbage and insisted that they be used somewhere else. That is the type of shop you need to be willing to run. The other thing is to make sure you have deep pockets to start. This contractor planned on losing money on his first X number of houses and making profit at the end. The state of the housing market now would make me wonder if there will be an end. I know of one guy that installs cabinets for tract developers and he is out between 90 and 120 days on his invoices. To answer the original question I don't think it matters what may or may not be out there to help you bid these projects, the developers all go by square foot numbers and already know what they are willing to pay. Think about the money, planning and banks behind these projects. They have actuaries that already have figured out what the job cost is, the bid process is just to see who will fall in line. If you can find out what the sqft price is and undercut it, that is essentially the only way to get on board with these projects. Doing takeoffs and actually figuring job cost is not going to get you anywhere with the people that award the jobs. It's a market with razor thin margins and the developers hold all of the cards. As I stated earlier there is money to be made, but you have to have a certain mind set that I do not posess.

Note that the above applies to my experiences with larger(150-200+ homes) developments/ contracts. YMMM with a smaller scale.

 

[CopperTone]

While all this is true, it makes me think - who the hack is out there giving these low ball prices, hiring monkeys, and driving the price down? If everyones bid was within a high tight window - wouldn't that make the price go up?
I always say that you can always find someone cheaper, but 25-50% cheaper? I don't know how they do it.

We just bid a job - not track homes - public bid - first off 10 EC's bid it. holy moly 10?
here were the results 60k, 88k, 89k, 96k, 98k, 107k, 108k, 109k, 125k, 197k

good luck estimating. we were 96k and I thought we were low.

 

[growler]

We just bid a job - not track homes - public bid - first off 10 EC's bid it. holy moly 10?
here were the results 60k, 88k, 89k, 96k, 98k, 107k, 108k, 109k, 125k, 197k

I would throw out the 60K and the 197K right off and and maybe kick out the 125K & 88K then only concider the others. It's not so bad if you look at it this way, you have a job that should go for around 100K with some being 10% high and others 10% low.

The six middle of the road bids come in at just over 102K so your company wasn't that far off. Probably as low as you would want to go without taking some real chances.

 

[480sparky]

I would throw out the 60K and the 197K right off and and maybe kick out the 125K & 88K then only concider the others. It's not so bad if you look at it this way, you have a job that should go for around 100K with some being 10% high and others 10% low.

The six middle of the road bids come in at just over 102K so your company wasn't that far off. Probably as low as you would want to go without taking some real chances.

I would tend to do the same thing. The 60K folks missed something. The 197K place must be installing 16k gold-plated recessed trims.

 

[aline]

I get a call where the guy says he needs a bunch of small electrical items done. Install boxes for some light fixture, install some light fixtures, run a little wire and install some receptacles, etc.

When I get there I find it's a new unoccupied million dollar custom home in a new developement. A guy pulls up a few minutes later in a Mercedes. I ask him if he's the homeowner and he explains that he is the builder and he needs the rest of the electrical finished so it will pass inspection.

I asked him why the electrical contractor that started it wasn't finishing it. He tells me he won't return his calls and he thinks he's broke and going out of business. I said isn't he obligated to finish the wiring under his contract and why wouldn't he come back and finish it so he can get paid.

The builder tells me he already paid the electrical contractor the full amount.

I found that hard to believe. Since when does a builder pay the electrical contractor the full amount before the works even completed?

I asked the builder who was wiring his home's before this electrician and why he doesn't see if they will do it for him.

He tells me the electrician he was using before this one went broke and out of business as well.

I tell him it sounds like he needs to find electricians that know how to charge enough to stay in business so he won't have this problem. He just laughs and nods his head. I give him a price to do the work and he looks at it and tells me it's way over the amount he has budgeted and he's going to have to figure something else out. I'm sure he'll find another electrical contractor he can bankrupt.

 

[mdshunk]

About the only new houses I wire are for builders that do maybe 2-3 houses a year. Some of them only do one a year. These are the guys who are more concerned with doing the right job rather than making their money at your expense.

 

[480sparky]

...He tells me the electrician he was using before this one went broke and out of business as well......

I recently finished a house trim for a builder who has hired me for the past 6 years. He told me this is my last job for him... I was charging too much. He can get someone else for 800 bucks less. He asked if I would be willing to match that price, and I said I could if I wanted to be homeless. He sighed and said, "Well, I'll just hire the other guy."

Later that afternoon, the builder shows up and asks me if I want to see his 'new toy.' Out in the drive was a brand-spankin'-new Corvette with 12 miles on the odometer. I looked at him and said, "Interesting. You run your business like it's your God-given right to have nice things, but you demand your subs price their work so low they have to drive a rusty '84 Mazda pick-up held together with duct tape and baling wire and live under a bridge in order to barely eek out a meager living."

 

[ceb58]

Later that afternoon, the builder shows up and asks me if I want to see his 'new toy.' Out in the drive was a brand-spankin'-new Corvette with 12 miles on the odometer

.

I looked at him and said, "Interesting. You run your business like it's your God-given right to have nice things, but you demand your subs price their work so low they have to drive a rusty '84 Mazda pick-up held together with duct tape and baling wire and live under a bridge in order to barely eek out a meager living."

No truer words have ever been spoken