Wiring new residential developments.

[LarryFine]

I looked at him and said, "Interesting. You run your business like it's your God-given right to have nice things, but you demand your subs price their work so low they have to drive a rusty '84 Mazda pick-up held together with duct tape and baling wire and live under a bridge in order to barely eek out a meager living."

No truer words have ever been spoken

Agreed, and I'd love to hear the response.

 

[480sparky]

Agreed, and I'd love to hear the response.

"I gotta make a living!" was his response.

I replied, "So must I. So must I."

 

[LarryFine]

"I gotta make a living!" was his response.

I replied, "So must I. So must I."

And then???

 

[brantmacga]

I had a guy call me today to change out the guts of two bath exhaust fans. I gave them a price on the phone, and the customer says come on and do it. I happened to be about two miles away headed to another job, and this was going to take me about half an hour, so I decided to do it right then. I showed up and the guy brings me the new fans. He asked me again what the price was;

me - "$120" --- I'd just told him this 10 minutes ago on the phone
customer - "I'll give you a hundred spot and we'll call it even."
me - "$120 and you've got a deal."

I get this on a weekly basis. Anyway, he paid up, but was still insistent that I just accept the hundred. I guess it doesn't hurt to try and negotiate. Its just aggrivating when they don't stop at the first "no".

 

[480sparky]

And then???

I kept on working, and he left.





End of fairy tale.

 

[Brad Baxter]

Developers

Developers

Toll brothers
beazer homes
pulte homes
centex homes

Someone has to wire the homes for these builders i hear about all the time. right? or are they looking to hurt us electricians also? sounds like a bad market to be in the way you guys stories are going.

 

[brantmacga]

sounds like a bad market to be in the way you guys stories are going.

Its just a different type of market; One you need to be specialized for and turning high volume to make a profit. I wouldn't say the big builders are out to hurt anyone, but they have a system and if you want to play you must conform. You're going to have to price every option and home and stick to that price. And you'll need to purchase bulk materials months in advance to help yourself make a profit. We have an EC here that tackled a development of a few hundred houses; they bought all of the materials needed for the entire project before work began . It saved them a six-figure number in costs.

 

[satcom]

Toll brothers
beazer homes
pulte homes
centex homes

Someone has to wire the homes for these builders i hear about all the time. right? or are they looking to hurt us electricians also? sounds like a bad market to be in the way you guys stories are going.

Most of those companies hire their own low pay employees, no much sub contracting, in the go go days, centex would often buy existing companies, with the large tract production experience.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

I really like the free-market system. Our services are worth what someone is willing to pay for them.

Trac wiring is just a production line. You need to be very fast and very organized to make as much as you can wiring more complex commercial work where you would work a bit more calmly. I'm not saying you can be slack in commercial work, just it's less speed orientated.

 

[emahler]

"Hey guys, what's the best way to run head first into that brick wall"

"You really don't want to do that. It hurts"

"Good more brick wall for me to run into"

"If you are determined to run into the wall, at least where a helmet"

"Nah, I don't need a helmet"

BAM!

"Hey, why didn't you tell me running into that wall was gonna hurt?"


That sum up this thread?

 

[peter d]

This is wiring in a Pulte tract home in southern California:

Does this look like it was done slow and neat, or fast and cheap? I don't know what part of the country you are in, but if you want to wire tracts this is what you'll be competing against. It's also the kind of work you'll end up having to do.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

That bundling above the panel is ok? I don't do resi work, but it sure looks like it would fail around here.

 

[peter d]

That bundling above the panel is ok?

It's ok in my book (and I don't think the NEC would condemn it either) but it looks pretty bad, and not how I would do it. It's going to be concealed in a wall so I don't think anyone would ever care that it's done that way.

 

[SmithBuilt]

It still needs strapping within 12".

Did it pass? I wouldn't do it, but no matter how bad the workmanship if it is up to NEC standards.....

 

[hardworkingstiff]

It's ok in my book (and I don't think the NEC would condemn it either) but it looks pretty bad, and not how I would do it. It's going to be concealed in a wall so I don't think anyone would ever care that it's done that way.

It looks to be bundled more that 24", doesn't that require derating of the conductors? Since there are so many bundled, I bet you are at 50% or less on the derating.

Am I off base on this?

Edit: Must not be too low end, they are still using copper water pipe.

 

[r_merc]

Hmnnnn did any one notice that they ran SER and then landed the ECG's on the Neutral Bar. Ooops

Not for me. I have one tract we have been working on for that last 4 years (52 Houses to date. Two more next month.) Good company to work with family owned and care about their product and let me get a fair price.

I used to do service work for a company that did these High Production tract homes. You better have all your ducks in a row and your costs figured to the Penny. Because you will loose your eeeoor if you have some cheep labor make a simple mistake and you have to send me out after the fact to fix it.
The place that they made money on was setting up the HOA street lighting. The houses were a pretty much break even proposition.

 

[CopperTone]

I like hearing everyones story about what to look out for regarding GC's or large developments, or whatever. I estimate all kinds of work and some that I don't have a ton of experience in doing so it is nice to hear "look out for this or that when doing a job like this or that"
I don't think just saying" been there done that" without elaborating helps anyone here.
Thats one reason why I read these posts anyway.

 

[Wire 2 Race]

My first job as a contractor was a residential builder. He's comes up to me like we are old buddy's and says look, I need you to do my first three houses (models) for nothing, and then I WILL GUARANTEE you the entire project. I told him, I will wire your entire project for our agreed upon prices, and then do the LAST THREE for free. I ended up doing about a dozen, and then had to start filing leins on them to get paid.

 

[peter d]

That sum up this thread?

Pretty much.

 

[LarryFine]

Hmnnnn did any one notice that they ran SER and then landed the ECG's on the Neutral Bar. Ooops

I did.