Wiring pool panel-8-16 circuit

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sparky62

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Hi Guys,
Iwould like to know if i can run direct buriel cable aluminum ,sleeved in pvc to the panel from the house, i intend to use 2/3 ser cable inside.
Also do i need to pull the #8 solid with the feeder or just bond the pool structure and equipment and bring it back to the pump,heater ,ect. i assume i don`t bring it into the panel or do i? :cool:
 
yes that is allowed, but what is 2/3 SER cable? #8 needs to bond the shell to the circulating equipment. it doesn't have to be run w/ the feeder.
 
pool wiring

pool wiring

:wink: 2/3 SER Cable is what we call it in new york
It`s service cable with a ground, its what you use when the panel is remote from the service entrance disconnect.
Hence the name, Service entrance run!, see you just learned something new lol! thanks for your reply:wink: :wink:
 
pool wiring

pool wiring

Hi Guys,
you say it`s ok to run dirct buriel cable for the pool panel, but that cable does`nt have a bond with it, what do i do ?
 
SER would not be permitted for this installation. A new feeder supplying swimming pool equipment must be installed in a raceway and include and insulated equipment ground conductor. See 680.25.

If you are going to be wiring swimming pools I suggest you thoroughly review Article 680.
 
chris kennedy said:
How do you know its allowed if you don't know what it is?
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well I know SER is 4-wire, I was just unsure was the 2/3 meant.



curt swartz said:
SER would not be permitted for this installation. A new feeder supplying swimming pool equipment must be installed in a raceway and include and insulated equipment ground conductor. See 680.25.

If you are going to be wiring swimming pools I suggest you thoroughly review Article 680.
Click to expand...

likewise; because you can use SER. give me an hour or two and I'll come up with a code reference.




sparky62 said:
what do you do for bonding between panels ,when there isn`t a bond wire with direct buriel cable?
Click to expand...

The #8 bond is between the pool shell and the circulating equipment. also any handrails, etc. . . get bonded also.

This will also be connected to the feeder EGC through the pump EGC's; in a panel w/ built in chlorinator, the #8 bond will also be attached directly to the panel.
 
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Brantmacga

Your first post to this thread was that SER cable is acceptable but then you stated you don?t even know what SER cable is. You don?t need to spend a couple of hours looking for a code reference because I gave it to you in my first post.

I guess you didn?t like my statement to the OP that they should spend time reviewing Article 680 but you are going to spend a couple of hours reviewing it to try and prove me wrong. Anytime someone starts working on a project that they are not familiar with they should spend time reviewing the appropriate code articles. If Bob (iwire) was wiring a pool I would tell him the same thing.
 
sparky62 said:
Hi Guys,
Iwould like to know if i can run direct buriel cable aluminum ,sleeved in pvc to the panel from the house, i intend to use 2/3 ser cable inside.
Also do i need to pull the #8 solid with the feeder or just bond the pool structure and equipment and bring it back to the pump,heater ,ect. i assume i don`t bring it into the panel or do i? :cool:
Click to expand...

You cannot run aluminum to a pool panel. Ser is not allowed in conduit underground nor for direct burial. There is a cable called USE that is for direct burial perhaps that is what you mean.
 
I?ll save you some time and post the relevant part of 680.25.

680.25 Feeders.
These provisions shall apply to any feeder on the supply side of panelboards supplying branch circuits for pool equipment covered in Part II of this article and on the load side of the service equipment or the source of a separately derived system.

(A) Wiring Methods. Feeders shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit, or reinforced thermosetting resin conduit. Electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted where installed on or within a building, and electrical nonmetallic tubing shall be permitted where installed within a building. Aluminum conduits shall not be permitted in the pool area where subject to corrosion.

Exception: An existing feeder between an existing remote panelboard and service equipment shall be permitted to run in flexible metal conduit or an approved cable assembly that includes an equipment grounding conductor within its outer sheath. The equipment grounding conductor shall comply with 250.24(A)(5).

(B) Grounding. An equipment grounding conductor shall be installed with the feeder conductors between the grounding terminal of the pool equipment panelboard and the grounding terminal of the applicable service equipment or source of a separately derived system. For other than (1) existing feeders covered in 680.25(A), Exception, or (2) feeders to separate buildings that do not utilize an insulated equipment grounding conductor in accordance with 680.25(B)(2), this equipment grounding conductor shall be insulated.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
You cannot run aluminum to a pool panel.
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Where did I get this from. Maybe an old code but it appears you can as long as the wire is not subject to corrosion. That is pretty vague.
 
Dennis

I thought I remembered a past requirement that the feeder EGC had to be copper. The oldest NEC I have within arms reach is the ?90 and AL is permitted. We may both be thinking of the insulated copper EGC requirements for pool branch circuits.
 
curt, i already replied that I know what SER is; I'd never heard the term "2/3" SER.

I should rephrase my first statement.

"Yes that will work".

We've always gone by the exception and called it existing, w/ the remote panelboard being directly beside the pool equipment. You can't tell me there's a danger in it if the code allows for an existing installation in that fashion to be approved.


Fire away. ;)
 
curt swartz said:
Dennis

I thought I remembered a past requirement that the feeder EGC had to be copper. The oldest NEC I have within arms reach is the ’90 and AL is permitted. We may both be thinking of the insulated copper EGC requirements for pool branch circuits.
Click to expand...
You may be correct. Old age--ugh
 
brantmacga said:
"Yes that will work".

We've always gone by the exception and called it existing, w/ the remote panelboard being directly beside the pool equipment. You can't tell me there's a danger in it if the code allows for an existing installation in that fashion to be approved.


Fire away. ;)
Click to expand...

I had the impression that the OP was doing anew install to a pool panel that would be underground. A 4 wire is definitely need as well as following the art. posted by Curt. Direct burial won't get it unless it is in conduit.
 
pool sub panel

pool sub panel

Ok lets start over,
I`am going to be running ser cable only in side the house ,then i `am converting to pvc to the pool sub panel once i exit the house, thus ser is a listed and approved cable assembly.

My only question is and i think u answered it, is i have to run a min. of # 12 solid or stranded w/ the feeders to the pool sub panel.

And the #8 gets bonded to either the inside of the panel or outside being it`s metal and part of the grid ,am i correct on all fronts? i`ll be awaiting your reply thanks again!
 
pool sub panel

pool sub panel

I apologize ,i for got to mention that once i exit the house i would like to run direct buriel cable ,sleeved in pvc with the listed # 12 awg, please reply thanks again!
 
sparky62 said:
Ok lets start over,
I`am going to be running ser cable only in side the house ,then i `am converting to pvc to the pool sub panel once i exit the house, thus ser is a listed and approved cable assembly.

My only question is and i think u answered it, is i have to run a min. of # 12 solid or stranded w/ the feeders to the pool sub panel.

And the #8 gets bonded to either the inside of the panel or outside being it`s metal and part of the grid ,am i correct on all fronts? i`ll be awaiting your reply thanks again!
Click to expand...


Look, you really need to read 680, but hear is a start for you.

680.25 Feeders
These provisions shall apply to any feeder on the supply side of panelboards supplying branch circuits for pool equipment covered in Part II of this article and on the load side of the service equipment or the source of a separately derived system.

(A) Wiring Methods Feeders shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit, or rigid nonmetallic conduit. Electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted where installed on or within a building, and electrical nonmetallic tubing shall be permitted where installed within a building.

Exception: An existing feeder between an existing remote panelboard and service equipment shall be permitted to run in flexible metal conduit or an approved cable assembly that includes an equipment grounding conductor within its outer sheath. The equipment grounding conductor shall comply with 250.24(A)(5).
 
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