Wiring pool panel-8-16 circuit

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In case it isn't obvious from the 680.25 postings, you get no relief from conduit when in or on a house. With pool branch circuits yes, feeders no. So you can use SER in the house, but it must be within conduit, and I'd argue this would need to be a complete conduit system so huge conduit will be needed to take a SER cable as if it was a giant single conductor.

The only way to use SER without conduit is if was as existing feeder.

I think you'd be better off to run conduit from the house panel to the pool panel and just run four individual conductors through that conduit. Make sure to use a W rated wire (e.g. THWN, RHW, XHHW).

Is the #8 you keep mentioning the equipotential bonding grid wire or the equipment ground for the feeder? If it is the equipotential bonding wire, it does not connect to any panelboard -- it just interconnects everything near or to plumbed to the pool.
 
suemarkp said:
In case it isn't obvious from the 680.25 postings, you get no relief from conduit when in or on a house. With pool branch circuits yes, feeders no.
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This statement i'm okay with...
suemarkp said:
So you can use SER in the house, but it must be within conduit, and I'd argue this would need to be a complete conduit system so huge conduit will be needed to take a SER cable as if it was a giant single conductor.
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This statement i'm not, you have to have an insulated grounding conductor, 680.25 (B), Unless the subpanel is existing.
 
pool wiring for panel

pool wiring for panel

Thanks ,
The #8 is for the bonding grid, so you say this doesn`t even get attched to the panel outside in anyway? please let me know.
The problem with running conduit is theres no access its a finised basement were the panel is, so thats why i posed the question if i could run ser and perhaps snake it in, i know it won`t be easy ,or just a 6/3 rx cable. thanks
 
sparky62 said:
Thanks ,
The #8 is for the bonding grid, so you say this doesn`t even get attched to the panel outside in anyway? please let me know.
The problem with running conduit is theres no access its a finised basement were the panel is, so thats why i posed the question if i could run ser and perhaps snake it in, i know it won`t be easy ,or just a 6/3 rx cable. thanks
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You have to pipe the entire feeder and pull an insulated grounding conductor, also, You need to read up on 680.26 Bonding, it is completely different than grounding. Read the section, then come back with more questions.
 
stickboy1375 said:
This statement i'm not, you have to have an insulated grounding conductor, 680.25 (B), Unless the subpanel is existing.
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Do all SER cables have a bare equipment ground? I know most SE has a woven conductor just covered and not insulated. But I've seen pictures of four distinct wires in SER, but don't know if I've ever seen the 4th wire insulated. I think there is also the woven ground type SER also.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I had the impression that the OP was doing anew install to a pool panel that would be underground. A 4 wire is definitely need as well as following the art. posted by Curt. Direct burial won't get it unless it is in conduit.
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so you can't use the USE that you previously stated was fine? Isn't USE just 2 hots and a ground (3-wire)?
 
brantmacga said:
curt, i already replied that I know what SER is; I'd never heard the term "2/3" SER.

I should rephrase my first statement.

"Yes that will work".

We've always gone by the exception and called it existing, w/ the remote panelboard being directly beside the pool equipment. You can't tell me there's a danger in it if the code allows for an existing installation in that fashion to be approved.


Fire away. ;)
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The term by me ser stands for service entrance romex. It is primarily used when you put the first disconect means on the outside of the building / A meter main for example. You can use concentric neutral service entrance conductor no ground a 3 wire until you hit the service main With 4/3 service entrance (ROPE). At this point you must switch to full ampacity wire 2/3 w ground aka ser. It means #2 cu /3 wire W a ground wire to the main panel served in the house.
 
sparky62 said:
Thanks ,
The #8 is for the bonding grid, so you say this doesn`t even get attched to the panel outside in anyway? please let me know.
The problem with running conduit is theres no access its a finised basement were the panel is, so thats why i posed the question if i could run ser and perhaps snake it in, i know it won`t be easy ,or just a 6/3 rx cable. thanks
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the panels with built-in chlorinators have an external bonding lug attached to the bottom. I always end the #8 there because i've just assumed that since the salt system is inline of the plumbing, its part of the water circulating system.
 
steelersman said:
so you can't use the USE that you previously stated was fine? Isn't USE just 2 hots and a ground (3-wire)?
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There are individual wires that are rated USE- you could get a triplex USE or a quadriplex USE also.

Don't confuse USE with SEU-- they are different animals.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
There are individual wires that are rated USE- you could get a triplex USE or a quadriplex USE also.

Don't confuse USE with SEU-- they are different animals.
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USE usually does not contain a flame retardant jacket so it cannot be used indoors.
 
stickboy1375 said:
USE usually does not contain a flame retardant jacket so it cannot be used indoors.
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Usually is the key word. USE can be dual rated and you can change over to thwn once you are at the buildings. I would not use USE I was just trying to clarify for steelerman
 
Dennis Alwon said:
There are individual wires that are rated USE- you could get a triplex USE or a quadriplex USE also.

Don't confuse USE with SEU-- they are different animals.
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I wasn't confuseing them, I thought that USE only had 3 wires as that's all I've seen but I'm aware of the fact that it doesn't have a jacket.
 
quogueelectric said:
The term by me ser stands for service entrance romex.
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I'm sure the R does not mean Romex, which was a brand name of the Rome Wire Co. of Rome, NY., but is now owned by Southwire.
 
As far as I know

SER = SE cable 'round'

SEU = SE cable 'flat'

The R and U are not actually part of the cable type as far as the NEC is concerned.

Notice the NEC does not mention SER or SEU just plain old SE and USE where the 'U' in that case is for underground.
 
wiring pool pump

wiring pool pump

It seems that we are getting away from the original question:
Can i use a approved cable indoors from the main house panel and then put a splice box upon exiting the house to go under ground to the pool panel ,and use thwn in pvc underground?
I was thinking ser cable because it has 2- hots 1-insulated neutral 1-bonding wire. i would then splice the thwn onto the ser feeders in the splice box.
Is this permissible? and please don`t say to read 680-26 again, thats the whole thing, is trying to interpret what it means, Thanks again guy`s,i`ll be waiting for your reply
 
Sparky you need to run conduit all the way back to the panel inside the house. Don't read 680.25(A) again-- I will read it to you-- No cable is listed as an approved wiring method. Rigid, IMC, liquidtight flex nonmetallic, rigid PVC or reinforced thermosetting resin conduit (whatever that is). EMT shall be permitted inside or on the building.

This explanation is for feeders not a branch circuit to the pool pump.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Usually is the key word. USE can be dual rated and you can change over to thwn once you are at the buildings. I would not use USE I was just trying to clarify for steelerman
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Dennis, I know both of us know what we would use, I was just throwing out some useful information, thats all, I know you know what USE is all about. ;)
 
ser cable

ser cable

Stickboy,
so tell me what the uninsulated wire is called in that cable? then get back to me
 
sparky62 said:
Stickboy,
so tell me what the uninsulated wire is called in that cable? then get back to me
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It is called the ground wire or the EGC.

It could also be a neutral (grounded conductor) in a 3 phase system.

I call it the bare or uninsulated conductor.
 
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