Wiring recptcl & switch technique -- legal?

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lordofpi

lordofpi

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I've started doing a few old-work residential projects lately and quite a few times I have come across the following practice. When two or more switches and or duplex receptacles exist in a box fed from the same circuit, the original installer stripped a portion of the incoming ungrounded conductor about half-way along its length in the box, probably about 3 inches now exposed in the segment. This portion was then looped around the screw terminal, and then the very same wire continues to feed the other switch/receptacle in the box.

This just seems to be laziness which could result in a definite danger should the first device ever be removed. Am I being too harsh about this? Do any of you do this and can defend it as safe? My impression is that all wire is to have two points of termination where insulation is removed -- its beginning and its end. Anything else must be through a splice of a new wire. Thoughts?
 
no problem

no problem

it's a good technique to avoid a connection, one less trouble-point
 
I have often done it that way. If the device is removed usually another will go in its place or you could tape the exposed area.
 
110.3(B) I doubt that the temination instructions would allow it and certainly not bare between devices
 
I've seen it recommended ("Wiring Simplified" for one), and would probably do it myself if I had the manual dexterity to pull it off!

If done properly, no more copper should be exposed than if making two separate connections. It is not bare between the two yokes -- that's what makes it difficult (for me anyway). How do you do it Dennis??
 
I just use my linesmen and strip about 3/4" of copper and wrap it around the first one then strip another 3/4" etc.

But really there is no code reason it could not be bare between the devices, not my style but it can be done.
 
iwire said:
.

But really there is no code reason it could not be bare between the devices, not my style but it can be done.
Click to expand...

What about
310.2 (A) insulated Conductors shall be insulated.

aren't they conductors ??
 
yes you can , you just don't get to strip it willy nilly ,.. the instructions for the device require it ..Most equipment requiring electrical connection does, not all though ,.. got to read the instructions if it says stip it, strip it , but only as instructed.
 
M. D. said:
the instructions for the device require it ...
Click to expand...

M.D. you know as well as I do that the manufacturers instructions do not change the NEC requirements.

If your position is that 310.2(A) requires the conductor to be entirely insulated the manufacturers instructions can not change that.

IMO what 310.2(A) requires is that I purchase insulated conductors.

And of course 110.7 requires the circuit to be free of shorts.
 
iwire said:
I just use my linesmen and strip about 3/4" of copper and wrap it around the first one then strip another 3/4" etc.

But really there is no code reason it could not be bare between the devices, not my style but it can be done.
Click to expand...

I can't envision how you can use linesman's to strip off 3/4" of insulation (not on the end of course) without damaging the copper or having an extremely ragged edge on either side. I'm guessing I'd need to see a picture of this... not following at all.
 
iwire said:
M.D. you know as well as I do that the manufacturers instructions do not change the NEC requirements.

If your position is that 310.2(A) requires the conductor to be entirely insulated the manufacturers instructions can not change that.

IMO what 310.2(A) requires is that I purchase insulated conductors.

quote]

Ok. so I guess I'm back to 110.3b The instructions on the the leviton receptacle device I'm looking at call for 5/8" to be removed. and the conductor to wrap 3/4 around clockwise.
Also I would be surprised if the device terminals are listed for such connection .No .I'm not going to look may be someone else will.

So I guess I would cite 110.3(b) but more importantly, to me anyway ,is this ;
I think there is also a violation perhaps an unenforceable violation, of 90.1(A)&(b) I think this kind of wiring would create a hazard.

Now some will say that" installation instructions are a suggestion because there are classified breakers ,...Instructions don't have to be followed etc"
.
I don't buy it.
Click to expand...
 
I could not resist looking:roll: This is from the U.L. online directery
Single and duplex receptacles rated 15 and 20 A that are provided with more than one set of terminals for the connection of line and neutral conductors have been investigated to feed branch-circuit conductors connected to other outlets on a multi-outlet branch circuit, as follows:
  • Back wire (screw actuated clamp type) terminations with multiple wire access holes used concurrently to terminate more than one conductor
  • Side wire (binding screw) terminals used concurrently with their respective push-in (screwless) terminations to terminate more than one conductor
Click to expand...

I think this means that they , meaning receptacles , have not been investigated for the method suggested bare or otherwise
 
tallguy said:
I can't envision how you can use linesman's to strip off 3/4" of insulation (not on the end of course) without damaging the copper or having an extremely ragged edge on either side. I'm guessing I'd need to see a picture of this... not following at all.
Click to expand...

Many electricians use their linemans pliers to strip wire. You develop a touch for it. I use either my pliers or my strippers. If I am going to loop the wire around a terminal I usually use my strippers and push the entire length up about an inch or two, then wrap that section around the screw.

The other method is to make two cuts with the strippers about an inch or so apart and use your knife to peel the jacket. Either way works.

I would never strip the entire length to the second device. Their may be no code on that but that wreaks of trouble when you fold the devices into the box.

Most of us are smart enough to not do that. I personally have never seen that kind of install.
 
M. D. said:
Now some will say that" installation instructions are a suggestion because there are classified breakers ,...Instructions don't have to be followed etc"
Click to expand...

I won't say that, but I will point out that only instructions that are directly linked to the products listing are covered by 110.3(B).
 
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terminate

terminate

First: tallguy, I use Ideal strippers, start say 6 " from the end of the wire, strip 5/8" of an inch, pushing that much insulatiojn off the end of the wire (no damge to the conductor--at least no more than just stripping the end) then I move to the end and strip the "extended 5/8 + 5/8 more leving 5/8 of bare for the 2nd device.

2nd M.D.: In my wildest imagination, I could not see this as a violation.
If the specs call for you to "strip 5/8 of insulation and wrap it around the screw" thats what you have done. If the wire stops there, fine..if not fine...
as I say, to me it's safer than making a wirenut joint......in this wrap method you have full contact on the screw (as opposed to stripped portion being a bit short) and you have elimated one possible loose connection.

I hate using stranded wire on screw terminal device, but some guys do it and leave a bit of insulatuon on the end of the wire to help conatin the strands. In your scenerio, would leaving this 1/8" of insulation be a violation also?

pardon me but sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeshhhhhhhhhh!
 
M. D. said:
II think this means that they , meaning receptacles , have not been investigated for the method suggested bare or otherwise
Click to expand...

I do not see that at all.

We are not terminating more then one conductor.
 
augie47 said:
...I hate using stranded wire on screw terminal device, but some guys do it and leave a bit of insulatuon on the end of the wire to help conatin the strands. ...
Click to expand...

Thats what I do when I'm forced to use stranded wire and I think it works great.
 
before I get off my soapbox:
I know one electrician that wires the entire branch circuit without making a joint. He folds his NM at the box and never cuts. When he goes to install the devices he cuts off the outer jacket, then skins back insulation on each conductor to wrap the connection around the screw.
I used to think it was silly, but as he pointed out one day.... if I install 5 outlets my way I have cut the wire 5 times, made 29 joints (including grounds); He has cut it once and made 3 joints......which is safer :grin:
 
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