Within a few days, ALL (6) AFCI Breakers begin tripping?

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davedottcom

davedottcom

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First, just one AFCI started tripping, next day 2 of them, within a couple days ALL (6) of them.
Siemens brand, approx. 10 years old, ALL (6) have been replaced, wiring to breakers is correct.
Feeders and Neutrals in Panel and Meter are fine, no corrosion, very clean.
AFCI breakers are located on Both A & B phases in panel.
Buss Bars look like new, no corrosion or signs of arcing to breakers.
200-Amp Siemens EQ8695 Main breaker has been replaced.
New AFCI Breakers typically hold all day until evening!?!? (Even with Lights on during the day!)

Old AFCI breakers destroyed: You can hear parts rattling around inside when you shake them!?

FPL came out to check it out but only performed a load test at meter. Results said everything ok.
FPL crew was asked to come back again to check the overhead neutral connections at house and/or transformer... no one can confirm if FPL ever came back or not!?

According to customer, there is no Flickering or Dimming, just all (6) AFCIs randomly tripping.

NOTE: House was hit by lightning back in July of 2016. It had damaged (1) AFCI breaker and the Electronic pool equipment panel.
Surge Protectors were installed in both panels back in 2016 and appear fine today.

Any ideas?
 
Neighbor just purchased a larger HAM radio which he uses at night !
 
It came to mind as I have had issues when we are using hand held walkie-talkes at a panel and keying the radio causes breakers to trip. The proximity of a strong radio is, IMO, a reasonable possibility but lets wait to see what others say as I have never seen it happen.
 
180309-2100 EST

Possibly. In days past when operators had 1 kW transmitters and a beam at 10 or 20 meters there were case where the transmitter would light up an incandescent in the neighbors house.

When WLW operated with a 500,000 W transmitter bed springs would talk to people.

With a 2 meter 20 W transmitter and beam, and a number of feet from the beam I have substantially (not full brightness) lighted a 20 W fluorescent tube hand held in space.

A GFCI or AFCI might be triggered by a near by radio transmitter. But I have never tried the experiment.

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I used to work with an outfit that utilized Motorola business radios for communication. If, within 2-3 feet of a GFCI, one keyed the mic, it would instantaneously trip the receptacle / breaker. If we needed to shut down an entire temp panel of GFCI breakers, we'd just key the mic as it was quicker than flipping all the handles.
 
Radio interference causing AFCI trips sounds strange enough to me already but if it can actually destroy AFCI breakers...That would be frightening!
I promised the customer I would be back out in the morning... I guess the first thing I will do is drive around looking for Antennas!?!?

Thanks!
 
180309-2154 EST

What does destroy a breaker mean? Open one and provide some clear pictures. RFI, any reasonable amount, won't directly destroy a breaker.

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Within a few days, ALL (6) AFCI Breakers begin tripping?

There was a thread last year with a link to a You Tube video showing AFCI breakers being tripped by a handheld radio.
 
Well, I looked around for HAM Radio antennas but only saw a few TV antennas. I also showed the customer the various videos online and told him how a bunch of you guys are saying the same things.

While I was there this morning, 3 of the new AFCIs tripped, 1 of them would trip within a few seconds, the other 2 would take a minute or so.

I did a visual inspection of the wires in the attic... the "home-run" wires to the panel all looked fine but I immediately noticed that all of the 14-2's were running totally separate from all of the others! AND, the 14-2's ALL went down the same exact hole next to the door leading into the house!?!? Why would ALL the 14-2 runs go down at the same location, near the garage!? This is actually getting even more bizarre!

I asked if ANYTHING was done lately, any new appliances, toys, remotes, light fixtures, radios or any nails in the wall, any pictures hung...etc... Nothing.

I explained that the next step would be to start trouble shooting each of the AFCI circuits to try to figure out what's going on.

He decided that he wants to contact the builder and have them send the original electrician out there since they should be familiar with their own wiring. I looked up the permit info online for him and gave him the name of the EC company.

To be continued!?!?

NOTE: I no longer think the AFCI breakers are being "destroyed" by what ever is suddenly making them all trip. I think the old ones that "rattled" when I shook them were actually damaged from the lightning strike back in 2016.
 
davedottcom said:
NOTE: I no longer think the AFCI breakers are being "destroyed" by what ever is suddenly making them all trip. I think the old ones that "rattled" when I shook them were actually damaged from the lightning strike back in 2016.
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Could it be that the strike also damaged the other breakers, but it's not showing up until now?

My first move would be to replace one of the breakers with a new one and see what happens.

I have also wondered if there may be some damage to the NM that is now showing up as a fault.
 
If breakers are counterfeit, my guess is they might not trip at all.

If old ones were destroyed, maybe in the mentioned lightning event, it also surprises me they would trip, or possibly may not even reset at all.

There have been instances where a load (even on a different circuit) produces RF or other effects that trip unrelated devices - even GFCI only devices.

Maybe they got something new at the time this started happening that creates such interference?
 
K8MHZ said:
Could it be that the strike also damaged the other breakers, but it's not showing up until now?

My first move would be to replace one of the breakers with a new one and see what happens.

I have also wondered if there may be some damage to the NM that is now showing up as a fault.
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I think it's very possible the lightning back in 2016 damaged all 6 of them, but to have them all start tripping a year and a half later, and all within a few days just doesn't make any sense to me.

All (6) of the AFCI breakers have been replaced and the new ones are still tripping.

The 14-2 NM wires appear fine in the attic but it's very bizarre to me that they all go down into a wall in the same location.
I offered to start opening up sws and recps to trouble shoot the circuits but he is going to contact the builder and have the original electrician come back.
 
LarryFine said:
Make sure the neutral is at zero volts to a genuine ground.
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A couple volts can be expected, voltage drop on service neutral is normal. Voltage drop on POCO MGN can even be expected and because service neutral is bonded to it - that VD which is seen at the opposite end as a rise in volts to earth gets passed on to everything it connects to. More then a couple volts is usually a problem that should be looked into. I don't see that issue causing AFCI tripping though.
 
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